Page 411-420

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Mon Sep 19, 2016 05:16 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yes Jet, they do appear to be an elitist org. But someone has to pony up the bucks for "validation" of a particular compound, and recoup the money by whatever means. Unless the gov funds the effort, and requires public domain....that's the model we are stuck with.

But I didn't mean for that to be a defacto example. Dr. Strum has indicated he'd work with any oncs & orgs with a sincere scientific mind set.

Another parrallel example of a funding/trial effort could be something like Give1forDad: http://give1fordad.com/about-the-study/

Or perhaps the Cures Within Reach/ Cures Accelarator platform:

http://www.cureswithinreach.org/

http://cureaccelerator.org/

In any case....was just curious if the "Strum Project" still had some legs to it.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sun Oct 02, 2016 06:22 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear MnMKona, I am not sure, but it was my impression from my last contact with Dr Strum that he was quite disappointed about getting 3BP on the move. Maybe things were more complicated than he envisioned. And since he has not reacted up to this moment, himself, is a clear indication to me that his laudable efforts have hit a snag. Which would be a pity for science and patients. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 06:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

I do know that Dr Ko is trying to raise money for clinical trials via the Ko foundation.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes & Ko has recently published a couple of papers.....stirring up interest?

Separately, this recent paper suggests interest by some folks at UC Irvine.

https://cancerandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.11

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by sumeetnag on Sun Oct 16, 2016 02:41 AM                   Quote | Reply

From my knowledge a team of experts was created, protocol created using experience of those with 3bp. All the doctors were asked to present patients keen to undergo the trial. So far to my knowledge only one patient went through this process, there were challenges with the delivery mode. Eventually it did not work for this pancreatic cancer patient. Dr.Strum eventually gave up due to lack of patients being put forward by the Doctors. What is the update from the Dutch-German clinics? They practised it in various forms of delivery.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Oct 17, 2016 08:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you everyone for your recent posts to the thread, they have really cheered me up.

The patients who went to the Bracht clinic were honorary friends of the thread and I am sad that 3-BP caused the tragedy that it did. The entire motivation of our thread has been to try and help these patients.

There is now a growing backlog of items of interest regarding 3-BP that I am raring to post to the thread. However, until the official investigation report is released we will be in somewhat of a holding pattern.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Mon Oct 17, 2016 09:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

Ugh..Dr Strum had mentioned that in the past he had this problem of enrollment, whereby the oncs provide the population.

But in a small clinic setting, there's not enough of an initial population to screen through & qualify.

He mentioned to me he thought that wouldn't be a problem with 3BP given all the "underground" interest. To bad it wasn't made better known of. That's a real shame. And I wonder what the challenge of the delivery mode was?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by lolopuffin on Mon Oct 17, 2016 09:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

I've missed something. What tragedy? What happened?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

lolopuffin, there was a 3-BP tragedy at the Bracht clinic on the German border. At least 3 of the patients that were treated there some time near the end of July passed away within days of treatment. It is still being investigated, though the heresay evidence to date suggests that a change in 3-BP supplier possibly in combination with the way in which it was formulated lead to an overdosing of 3-BP.

Much of the 3-BP community has been in stand by mode waiting for a conclusive report about the incident. Some of the leading treatment clinics are no longer advertising 3-BP services.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Oct 18, 2016 08:32 PM                   Quote | Reply

The psiram blog is doing a great job of reporting on 3-BP and the Bracht incident. Something that I noticed in their reports was that a German pharmacy had produced 1400 ampules of 3-BP.{I think this might be the one that D has referred to, Hesse?}

This is quite an astonishing amount of production for a chemical that has never even started a clinical trial. When you go online to Chinese supplier website, you can buy kilogram scale quantities of pharmaceutical grade 3-BP. I think it should very obvious to all on our thread that we urgently need clinical trial evidence of 3-BP. 3-BP has already rolled out on an industrial scale and it seems only fair that those who are even now being treated with it have  objective research that can inform their decision to try it. That 3-BP should be in the clinic is not headline worthy news on our thread, though the scale of current gray market usage of it IS news to me.

https://www.psiram.com/ge/index.php/3-Bromopyruvat_Therapie

https://www.psiram.com/ge/index.php?title=Klaus_Ross&typ

"According to Deutsche Apotheker-Zeitung have the pharmacy in the past more than 1,400 3-BP - ampoules manufactured and sold by prescription.After the deaths the pharmacy had to assure the authorities, no longer produce the drug as a formulation, and to start a recall."

Original German "Nach Angaben der Deutschen Apotheker-Zeitung habe die Apotheke in der Vergangenheit mehr als 1400 3-BP - Ampullen auf Rezept hergestellt und verkauft.Nach  den Todesfällen habe die Apotheke den den Behörden zusichern müssen, das Arzneimittel nicht mehr als Rezeptur herzustellen, und einen Rückruf  zu starten."

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 08:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

finder, I know that we are all in quiet mode though there is just so many interesting things going on with 3-BP, so I though I would break the silence.

I only have the abstract for the below, yet it seems to be referring to you exact idea of isotoping 3-BP. It would be very interesting to see what a scan of isotopic 3-BP might show in vivo regarding possible indications of therapeutic target engagement.

"2-deoxyglucose is not a specific glycolytic inhibitor" Anyone have a explanation of this statement. It seems very mysterious to me.

http://www.proteomicsconference.com/abstract/2016/systematic

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 08:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

I want to post some of the 3-BP items that have been piling up so that they don't zap into the unfindable box.

I came across this longecity thread that appears quite related to much of our discussions. There are some highly interesting comments on this thread. First the thread was motivated by the idea of creating the conditions for mitophagy (eliminating mitochondria especially defective ones). I had no idea that such a process was even possible. We have noted on the thread before PQQ as a mitogenesis agent, though this was not mentioned with respect to a comprehensive mitophagy strategy. What I am wondering is whether mitophagy plus mitogenesis might be helpful in cancer treatment. "nicotinamide (and also niacin and nicotinamide riboside) can increase this ratio and dramatically increase mitophagy— "

We have noted on the thread before that the NAD+ to NADH ratio is a centrally important redox indicator for the cell,

"The balance between the oxidized and reduced forms of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide is called the NAD +/ NADH ratio . This ratio is an important component of what is called the redox state of a cell, a measurement that reflects both the metabolic activities and the health of cells." wiki

though I had no idea that this indicator had further importance in cell behavior, apparently it does :  "Cells use the ratio of NAD+ to NADH (the oxidized and reduced forms of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide) as a signal to begin mitophagy."

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/86297-a-protocol-to-upg

The motivation would be that stressing OXPHOS and then possibly glycolysis with an anti-glycolytic might greatly stress cancer cells. It has been noted on our thread that some cancers (e.g. ccRCC) appear to be highly deficient in mitochondria. A mitophagy strategy might be especially powerful in such contexts.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 08:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

"CRC cell exposure to acetate upregulates the expression of MCT1, MCT4 and CD147, while promoting MCT1 plasma membrane localization. We also observed that acetate increases CRC cell glycolytic phenotype and that acetate-induced apoptosis and anti-proliferative effect was potentiated by 3BP. Our data suggest that acetate selectivity towards CRC cells might be explained by the fact that aquaporins and MCTs are found overexpressed in CRC clinical cases."

I am not sure whether this one has been posted to the thread yet, though it always seems worthwhile posting something that might upregulate MCT-1.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27661124

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 08:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Another one I wanted to post was from the wikia. Someone posted that the 3-BP spectro analysis idea was reasonable (think that one was yours finder).

It is always great to have those with a chemical background giving us some confirmation. This got me thinking that this might be a great one for the 3-BP clinics to use as a simple cheap check to ensure that they were using the right 3-BP dosage. Toss some 3-BP into a curvette and see what the concentration was. Perhaps such a simple procedure could avoid dosing problems in the future. Waiting hours after preparing a 3-BP batch for treatment introduces too many variables and thus too much uncertainty regarding how much active 3-BP was in fact present. A simple check might help reduce the risk.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 09:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

Wow! We really need to keep up wih what's going on out there. I am here for the people to make sure that we're not so clued out that we have no idea what's happening.

So, it looks like they started an anti-aging clinical trial several months ago. This has been shown to reverse key metabolic features of aging in mice in a week. There are so many players in motion with this that I would call on the thread to help think what this would mean for our metabolic approach to cancer. How might NMN fit into our perspective?

http://www.dmarge.com/2016/07/anti-aging-drug-humans.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_mononucleotide#ci

If you want some, it's online, apparently it has been out there for a while now.

The thread has discussed the possibility of shifting NAD+ levels, though this was considered unlikely. Perhaps not.

"We trace the cause to an alternate PGC-1α/β-independent pathway of nuclear-mitochondrial communication that is induced by a decline in nuclear NAD+and the accumulation of HIF-1α under normoxic conditions, with parallels to Warburg reprogramming. Deleting SIRT1 accelerates this process, whereas raising NAD+levels in old mice restores mitochondrial function to that of a young mouse in a SIRT1-dependent manner. Thus, a pseudohypoxic state that disrupts PGC-1α/β-independent nuclear-mitochondrial communication contributes to the decline in mitochondrial function with age, a process that is apparently reversible."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4076149/#R55

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 09:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

One of my posts has just went to moderation. I think it's too important to wait, so here's the edited version.

Looks like there might be an anti-aging treatment in the pipe. We have talked about possibly changing NAD+ levels, apparently someone has figured out how to make this happen.

"We trace the cause to an alternate PGC-1α/β-independent pathway of nuclear-mitochondrial communication that is induced by a decline in nuclear NAD+and the accumulation of HIF-1α under normoxic conditions, with parallels to Warburg reprogramming. Deleting SIRT1 accelerates this process, whereas raising NAD+levels in old mice restores mitochondrial function to that of a young mouse in a SIRT1-dependent manner. Thus, a pseudohypoxic state that disrupts PGC-1α/β-independent nuclear-mitochondrial communication contributes to the decline in mitochondrial function with age, a process that is apparently reversible."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4076149/#R55

NMN is already available online.

Would love ot hear thread comments on how this might be integrated into our anti-metabolic approach to cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

This article extensively discusses NAD/NADH ratio and there is a mention of 3BrOP.

http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2015/05/01/part-4-of-the-

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by kccoc on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:53 PM                   Quote | Reply

Not sure if this article has already been posted here, if not, just fyi;

"BP-induced cytotoxicity was independent of p53. When combined with cisplatin or oxaliplatin, BP led to massive cell death. The anti-proliferative effects of low-dose platinum were strikingly potentiated also in resistant p53-deficient cells. Together with the reported lack of toxicity, this indicates the potential of BP as a clinical chemopotentiating agent."

"3-Bromopyruvate as inhibitor of tumour cell energy metabolism and chemopotentiator of platinum drugs (2008)" - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov /pubmed/19383331

Therefore, instead of 3BP as a monotherpay, might 3BP not be positioned as an 'enhancer' to pharma-standard chemo drug?

Much like "pre-med' to prevent nauseas or swelling, can 3BP be use in situation where a lower dose of chemo drug is necessary for patients that could not tolerate toxicity at standard dosing regimen? or even for  cost consideration, to be able to use less of the chemo drug.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Oct 23, 2016 03:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

kc, this is a very good point that the thead has largely ignored up to this point. Typically cancer patients want to follow their doctor's advice which usually means substantial amounts of chemotherapy. There are probably now hundreds of thousands of American cancer patients obediently adhering to this treatment plan. Few of them would even consider 3-BP as a potential treatment.

3-BP uses a trojan horse strategy to enter cancer cells, perhaps it could also use this strategy to make it to market. All those hundreds of thousands of patients could keep their chemo and possibly potentiate it  with some 3-BP. It would be a great way for 3-BP to finally enter clinical trials.

I guess the reason why we did not wind up with those clinical trials is that the original 3-BP patient reports were so dramatic. The liver patient was treated with 3-BP monotherapy and the melanooma patient was treated with combo 3-BP paracetamol. Usually doctors only introduce a new drug as an addition to standard of care chemo. This generally leads to muted expectations that the new drug will be effective. However, most of the focus has shifted to 3-BP as the central treatment with other add ons to intensive its effects.

Most of the chemo 3-BP studies were done a few years ago. It would be interesting to hear if some on the thread have tried this combo.

I was interested to see how 3-BP through depleting ATP helped to reduce multi-drug resistance. Cancer cells can simply pump out chemo. However, with ATP they can't.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24463111

Figure 3A of the article you cited shows the cell cycle stage proportions of cells treated with 3-BP. This has me wondering whether some sort of 3-BP cell cycle combo might be reasonable. Also I am wondering about the chronobiology side of 3-BP. Is there an exploitable weakness of the metabolism of cancer cells through the cycle of the day. For example, do cancer cells have constantly high energy demands or just at certain points of the day. It would be quite interesting to know whether normal cells power down at night while cancer cells might be relatively more active.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Sun Oct 23, 2016 06:45 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcancom

The chronomodulated chemotherapy strategy is not new, "The schedule for the release of your medication is based on the biological uniqueness of the drug being given, the time when specific cancer cells divide [power up?] and are more vulnerable to cell death, and the time when healthy cells are at rest and least sensitive to toxicity from chemotherapy."

http://www.blockmd.com/what-is-integrative-cancer-care/chron

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Oct 23, 2016 07:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

MnM, exactly, exactly!

Chronobiology has been around for decades. I am wondering what happens when they do the chrono research for 3-BP. I do not remember any of the 3-BP studies that I have read considering time of day. I would be very interested to see what the result would be if they were to systematically manipulate variables such as cell cycle stage, time of day, ambient temperature etc..

My hunch is that there could be some room to improve 3-BP's effectiveness. Maximally knocking down ATP levels in cancer cells might improve outcomes. With heart attack they have found that reducing body temperature by even a few degrees can lead to better outcomes. Possibly reducing body temperature before anti-metabolic treatment could also be helpful (put the body in suspended animation while the cancer cells do not get the message).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Sun Oct 23, 2016 09:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

I'm not sure if this statement, "By comparing the levels of metabolites in tumors with those in normal tissues, they were  able to chart the rise and fall of these chemicals." reflects what comparative time frames (if any). Or if 3BP or it's "effector" compounds are even included in their panel makeup (one would think it is or should be). Using this tool would require tissue samples taken at different times of day (not likely to happen). So how would one mimic/translate daily rhythms in petri dish? http://www.cancertherapyadvisor.com/renal-cell-carcinoma/kid But Dr. Block has done it (and/or whoever) in different disease types & chemos, so it's possible! Using population studies to verify.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Oct 24, 2016 07:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

MnM, I am just not sure whether the Chrono studies that have been done to date for traditional chemotherapy truly applies to anti-metabolics. We might need a new branch of Chrono therapy: Chronometabolic therapy.

Chemotherapies are targeting different mechanisms of action which probably are related to circadian cycles in a different way than with 3-BP and other such drugs. There might be a magic moment sometime during the circadian cycle where 3-BP treatment could have exceptional effectiveness. It is very frustrating that this research does not seem to have been done. There is so much translational research that is still on the table waiting to be done for 3-BP.

{finder, is probably out there reading this so he can help us out.} It is possible that a non-invasive scan could be done that would show how tumor metabolism changed through the day. Research might then use such scans to coordinate treatment.

I think it is fair to suggest that in the published patient reports to date of 3-BP the circadian rhythm of the hospitals were taken into account more so than that of the patients. Most of the patients appear to have been treated between noon and 3 PM. This would exactly fit the shift rotation of these hosptials.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Oct 24, 2016 07:23 PM                   Quote | Reply

I suggested combo chemo 3-BP in a previous post. Here is a cautionary tale with combo chemo DCA. It is sobering to realize that even with an entire team of highly qualified researchers within a clinical trial context things can go wrong: unexpected synergies might occur that are difficult to understand even in retrospect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3939783/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Oct 24, 2016 07:32 PM                   Quote | Reply

Here is another chemical called DCA with an interesting anti-cancer potential. D has posted about using acidification strategies as a treatment strategy. I would love to hear his comments on how this DCA might be combined to enhance the effect. Perhaps locking in lactic acid? Somewhat surprising how large the ATP decrease was with DCA treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3161789/#pone.0

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcan "Chronometabolic therapy" has a nice intriguing ring to it! I think the chronochemo studies might at least provide a tentative template for the metabolic approach. Never really crossed my mind how those studies were designed. Certainly "mechanism of action" requires looking at all aspects of cell behaviour, including circadium rhythm. Interestingly, there has been a vast array of new "cancer metabolism", conferences, orgs, a facebook page, web sites, etc popping up. The metabolic modality of cancer seems to be busting wide open.......3BP HAS to in the mix(es) somewhere. BTW, Dr. Ko will be speaking at this one in Feb. http://metabolictherapeuticsconference.com/speakers/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Meech90 on Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:10 AM                   Quote | Reply

Some interesting speakers that I know work with a Keto diet, in specific for cancer therapy. Dr. Seyfried and Miriam Kalamian are both heavily interested in that field and have a ton of experience with patients. Andrew Scarborough is an interesting one for people to check out. I believe he's achieved remission with a Keto diet for GBM.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Oct 25, 2016 03:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

DEar Jcancom, I have been on holidays for the past two weeks, so that is why I have been silent most of the time. As for the linked paper on proteomics and isotopes, it looks as if the abstract has been retracted. Strange. The use of isotopes in proteomics resesarch is 99% stable isotopes, since detection is mostly by advanced mass spectrometers. I am currently working on the analysis of a 3-BP related dataset, and there is no need to use any isotopes. Brome has two stable isotopes, 79Br and 81Br, which occur at about 50% each in nature. Fragments of proteins that would contain bromine (very unlikely to occur) will have their peaks split up with a mass difference of 2 daltons if one bromine would have bound to the fragment. For more, patterns become increasingly complex, but they will stand out as a sore tooth during analysis. The term "glycolytic inhibitor" is not appropriate for 2-DG, since it works by competing with glucose for the phosphate (ATP) in a cell, but does not inhibit the enzyme in any other way. Just semantics, to my opinion.

kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by alternmed on Thu Oct 27, 2016 08:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear all

a sad out of subject ,daniel has lost his wife.

i wanted to post my condoleances to his site but i am getting blocked from some reasons..

I hope he and others fighters will continue as there is many will need all help that can provided in research...

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Meech90 on Thu Oct 27, 2016 08:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

I'm incredibly sorry for your loss Daniel. That is awful news. If you need anything at all don't hesitate.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Emad-Ly on Fri Oct 28, 2016 02:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

I can't believe what happened with Daniel

my heart and soul are broken for this tragedy

he was a true hero to us, giving us his limited time just to help desperate people like us

he is like a mentor to me, i learned from him how to apply these alternative treatments to my very important patient (my mother)

i even started to administrate a high risk treatments like Salinomycin to my mother all thanks to God and thanks to Daniel who shared all this information only to help my mother and my entire family

and of course, all thanks to his dear wife , without her there wouldn't be a Daniel helping us with his precious time

I have been inspired by him and his wife all the time, and kept strong and taking risks trying to make things better

now after what happened i felt like I lost a true family member, i wish i can be with you now Daniel

im so sorry for your lost, i will never forget your great help

your wife and all the warriors who lost against cancer will live in our hearts

please stay strong

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by jetsparkle on Fri Oct 28, 2016 03:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

Oh, no!!!!!! What a terrible tragedy!!!

My dearest Daniel, I know you loved and will always continue to love your precious Miha. What a wonderful person she will always be in our hearts==and how we all admire your deep love and actions as a true warrior for her during these past few years. She knew the depth of your devotion for her, Daniel--and how exceptional a husband and person you are indeed.

I just cannot adequately express my sense of pain and heartfelt sympathy upon her passing and  the terrible loss you must be feeling right now. You will always be in my heart and I will pray for you as you try to cope with all of this.

Remember her great love for you and the fact that because you feel the same way for her that she had a few extra years of life--but how I wish there could have been many, many more for her. You were her steadfast warrior--never forget that. And you shared your time and research with so many during all of this--showing the greatness of your spirit and heart. Never change--continue to be the gentle, open person you are. Miha would have wanted that, I believe. And she herself shared you with us--showing her kind  spirit during her travails, too.

I will always have you in my heart, Daniel--please know that many care about you and will  be wishing you peace of heart and of mind.

Sending your my heartfelt and deepest condolences and hopes,

Jetsparkle

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by peggyznd on Fri Oct 28, 2016 03:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Daniel, I am so saddened to hear of the loss of your wife, whom you obviously loved dearly and championed for her. The terrible grief you must feel is shared by all of us, and do hope that you have friends and family near by you at this time.

Sincerely,

Peggy

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by falconet on Fri Oct 28, 2016 04:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

words fail to descirbe how tragic this feels to me. I don't think I can ever be a happy person again even if my own mom survives this battle. something lost in me forever as I had never seen a love like this. I believe the most precious gift, aside from all the valuable information he shared with us, was to have faith in love. dear Daniel, forgive me that I never had anything to offer in return. Pouya.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Fri Oct 28, 2016 05:18 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Daniel, I am deeply saddened about your great loss... accept my sincere condoleances, it is terribly painful. We, your friends since 3 years on this thread, we share and feel the pain.. as if it were a family member. For 3 years you have taught and encouraged us with your countless, balanced, wise and thoughtful posts here and on your website. Thank you so much. You achieved alot for your wife and learned a lot on this path, which I hope will lead one day soon to no more lost battles... Once you recover, please carry on helping those in need by sharing your research! With sincere friendship and sympathy, Ion.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Fri Oct 28, 2016 06:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Daniel, this is a sad message. We hope that Miha may rest in peace and that you will find the strength to cope with this terrible loss. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Oct 28, 2016 06:55 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Daniel, my deepest condolences.

Your relentless efforts to help your wife are an overwhelming testament to your love and devotion for her. We on the thread have been first hand witnesses to your driving determination to find that next step forward that would finally lead to the answer. Year after year after year, your focus has never wavered. Together with your guidance the entire thread has sought out that next step.

While that next step was beyond reach, you can be rest assured that your wife has lit the way forward for others on this same journey. Of all the tens of millions of people who have struggled with this illness, she was one of the few who did not stay on the well worn and known to be futile trail, but instead made a path for herself. There can be absolutely no doubt that we would be so much closer to finding that final piece of the puzzle if more had also tried to blaze a new trail.

There is now an eternal light that guide the way for future fellow travellers.

Sincerely,                                                                              Jcancom

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Oct 29, 2016 09:09 AM                   Quote | Reply

Daniel I am so sorry for your loss. I know when I lost my mother back in February I was mad at the doctors that took care of her because they just said go home and die with family. I moved her in with my family and we set up hospice. It was not easy to watch. I found this website all too late but keep reading the posts daily. Your, finder, jcancom, and others. You all have something brilliant to bring forth and I just wonder why you all have not gotten together to really find a pathway that would help others. There are many on the blog that I am sure would contribute should you all ever decide to follow that road. Not even sure if you all live in the same country but I think with your intelligence and your post, you can all come up with something. Love and light to all.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Mon Oct 31, 2016 05:53 AM                   Quote | Reply

Oh man....me saying that I know how this feels (sister & mother lost, father & wife, mother & father in law still fighting) is of little value. But others have said it very well. This is such sorrowful news. May the serenity prayer find it's appropriate way into your heart Daniel.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference. Quote | Reply

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Nov 01, 2016 03:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Friends, thank you so much for all the beautiful kind and supportive thoughts and words. It means so much to me ... I agree with Chris: we need to think how, together, we can take what we have learned to a next level.

What I haven’t wrote on my website is that until one and a half month ago my wife was fine. Just before that we were on holiday. But at the mid of September she had some constipation and she went to the hospital to see if they can help. We stayed in the hospital for 4 days and after that she went out of the hospital with edema and coughing. The treatments used by the hospital have brought her in to a state such that after that everything went out of control. Essentially, they washed out of her blood all the minerals and other important elements trying to lower Ca level which was elevated (but that was at that level for the whole past year). Initially they did not want to understand the origin of the high Ca in our case, as I explained: it was the elevated Cortisol produced by the tumor which in turn was leading to a high para thyroid hormone, and which in turn was triggering loss of Ca from the bones. The right approach would be to focus either on lowering Cortisol production or Phara Thyroid hormone. But their first choice was to wash out her blood during many days … such a big mistake for them doing it and for us accepting it. Finally, they understood they should focus on Cortisol or Para Thyroid but it was too late as they already washed out her blood … it only took a few weeks after this to lose my dear wife.

With this it becomes so clear to me that once they have to deal with late stage cancer patients, most hospitals simply do not know what to do. The protocols they have in place are for “easy” jobs only.

As I wrote on my website, I intend to (very soon) start up a Foundation to further help cancer patients and doctors with anticancer treatment optionshttp://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1997

And that will not only be sharing info on my website but also connecting doctors with patients and finding doctors willing to start clinical trials with new drugs, in countries that allow for that. I am already working on that. But beyond that, I realize that cancer patients may need a structure not only for help with anticancer treatment options but also with other treatments such as the one encountered by us (calcium). Cancer patients have a sensitive body and treatment protocols that work for non-cancer patients may not work for cancer patients. Another challenge I found in our journey and that other friends have encountered is the time to diagnostic. If my dear wife would be examined when her complains started, we would not be stage IV at the diagnostic point. But the family doctor delayed the investigation by months so that we had to go to another country for a diagnostic. Western Countries, at least western Europe, developed a system that it aims at minimizing the costs (while insurance companies growing profits). And cancer patients suffer the most from this. Either when they should be diagnosed as time matters or when they are late stage when hospital stop trying to help. Fortunately, there are countries where costs are low and private clinics can enable a fast diagnostic. At some stage, via the Foundation, I also intend to address this aspect and support patients to get a fast and low cost access to diagnostic tools. So far, in Europe, I have a clear view on how to do that.

To conclude, I am in deep pain as I lost my dear wife. Normally, I should not want to have to deal with cancer anymore. But I know how painful can be all the steps from diagnostic until the end, whether that is positive or negative, and I intend to try reduce or eliminate that pain for others. And if some of you agree we can think how we can work together on that line. The most important is to make effective solutions practical and accessible.

Thank you all for everything and it was a great pleasure to meet you all on this forum as we grew our knowledge and shared feelings together.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Meech90 on Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:01 AM                   Quote | Reply

It's scary to hear what one hospital visit can do. I was hospitalized for 3 days two weeks ago with kidney issues, and was given a bolus dose of dextrose and a shot of insulin to fix a slightly elevated potassium issue. I was worried at the time due to the dextrose obviously feeding cancer cells and the IGF-1 receptors within the cancer cells. It's tough to be careful during emergencies and it's definitely scary to hear what one hospital visit can actually bring.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by falconet on Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

My mom's condition also quickly deteriorated after a Cataract surgery for which she was put into general anesthesia. she immediately developed ascites and felt generally worse. she'd go for long walks till the surgery with no pain whatsoever and generally good appetite. and then everything turned for worse. if it is a coincidence and it has nothing to do with what happened to the hospital, it's one hell of a coincidence.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Nov 02, 2016 06:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

Cure heart disease with hypoxia? Suppose this is not great news for those oxygen bars that have sprung up.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161101093856.h

Am trying to figure out how shutting down oxygen consumption might actually help as an anti-cancer treatment. Seems to be going in the wrong direction. Wouldn't this just push cancer cells to be more glyocolytic? Sort of revving the Warburg effect. Might anyone help out?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by MnMKona on Fri Nov 04, 2016 05:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

Take lots of time to get rested & centered Daniel, we all know you must be totally exhausted physically, mentally......& especially emotionally.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Meech90 on Fri Nov 04, 2016 09:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcancom and finder, maybe you can chime in on this. I've been looking at Gallium Scans. Essentially the same principle as PET scans (injecting with a substance that is uptaken by cancerous tissue vs injecting with a substance that is taken up by tissue experiencing inflammation). Anyway, these scans are used to detect cancer among other things. Has there been any thought given to combining this gallium with an anti-cancer substance, or possibly using a substance which mimics gallium in order to attack cancer cells. It would be fairly specific, as it would be targeting areas of inflammation. Of course it sounds like there would be some collateral damage, but I believe the same can be said about substances attacking PET positive tissue. Thoughts?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ernemef on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:05 AM                   Quote | Reply

Meech, you may find this interesting.

http://atlasofscience.org/a-novel-radionuclide-treatment/

a trial is presently underway in Melbourne and Sydney Australia.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sat Nov 05, 2016 08:52 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Meech90, Ga in itself is not specific for any tumor, as far as I know. It is in its isotopic form, along with other elements, that is interesting. It can be produced on-site from 68Ge(rmanium) and relatively easily separated and coupled to the target molecule for tracing or treatment. This is in contrast to 18F DG, which requires a cyclotron to produce. And it is already in use, both for detection as well as for treatment. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 09:38 AM                   Quote | Reply

I was under the impresssion that we need to increase glutathione in patients with cancer. Can someone comment on this?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 09:38 AM                   Quote | Reply

I was under the impresssion that we need to increase glutathione in patients with cancer. Can someone comment on this?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 09:53 AM                   Quote | Reply

I am trying to understand the glutathione treatment. One post was for decreasing and another for adding via IV. Can someone please clairify this for me.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

Are you saying they are using DMSO in an IV with 3BP????

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sat Nov 05, 2016 04:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, what is the purpose of your series of questions? Please expand on your motives. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Meech90 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 04:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you to the two posters for their replies to my earlier post.

In other news, here is what Dr. Jason Williams is up to now: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/doctor-develops-new-

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 05:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am just re-reading many of the posts and find some contradicting posts. So just to be sure I want to make sure I am educating myself correctly. SO if someone can comment and claify, that would be great.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 05:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Howard, just wondering how you are doing and what steps you have done?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Mon Nov 07, 2016 07:22 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, I have a feeling that you are not being frank and honest with us when you say that you want to educate yourself and want elucidation on seemingly contradictory postings? But correct me if I am wrong about this feeling. In that case, please explain what it is that you are looking for, so we can try to be of help with your queeste. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 07:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Not sure what your getting at. The posts I am reading, if you look back, ie DMSO in an IV or Orally, just asked if that is really safe since DMSO is a solvent. We used to use it with aspirin and rub it over painful joints. As far as Gluthione, I was always under the assumption that GT is important to prevent cancer and an instrumental antiox. but posts on here are saying to want to deplete it. SO there are my questions.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

ernemef, Thank you for your post! It greatly cheered me up.

Clinical cancer research has more than its fair share of disappointments: it is always encouraging to see treatments that show some promise. The article that you posted at least on a first reading seemed fairly positive.

The recent news about Novartis pulling away from CAR T-cells was a tough one to cope with and then the phase 3 for peg argnine reporting a negative result did not help any. These were multi-year efforts and it is now not completely clear what their path forward might be. With metabolic treatments, one has this dismal thought that they might never be proven to be effective (nor not effective).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ernemef on Tue Nov 08, 2016 05:55 AM                   Quote | Reply

jancom here is a bit more detail on the LuPsma nuclear treat ment running in Australia:https://twitter.com/jillmargo1

Click on "More places may open for 'game-changing' nuclear treatment for prostate cancer"

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Nov 08, 2016 05:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, DMSO is a solvent. Glutathionine is important for cancer prevention, but many tumors have a high production of glutathionine, since it is involved in cellular detoxification. It renders a lot of tumors resistant against many forms of chemo, including 3-bp. Several publications have shown that many resistant tumors become vulnerable when glutathionine production is inhibited, including some melanomas. Paracetamol is such an inhibitor. I hope this helps to explain the observed inconsistencies you noted. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Nov 08, 2016 08:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

Ernemef, wow! Good one!

Those results look very strong indeed. I am not sure how such a large turn around in cancer burden could occur so fast without some sort of a TLS response. Wonder if the laws in Germany would allow patients to receive this treatment now.

If anyone else has more good news, please by all means post to our thread.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

"the absence of MCTs (monocarboxylic acid transporters) in β-cells explains the pyruvate paradox"

"In all tissues other than in the pancreatic islet, the expression of MCT1 and LDH contributes to flexibility of metabolism"

http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/content/36/3/300.long

I do not remember the thread ever discussing this one before. It would seem to have importance concerning treatment strategies for pancreatic cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 06:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcancom, I can tell you for certain that clinical trails cost lots of money. I do know for certain that Dr Ko will be starting this up soon. I will be posting on here from time to time the outcomes, once they begin.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

chris, it has been such a disappointment to me that through all these years on the thread the entire clinical trial process continues to be based on fundamental principles that have not, will not and probably could never create the change we all want.

Some efforts have been made to change some of the basic flaws, though from what I can see these flaws remain. We need to create a process whereby all that is needed is a great idea. Moving back to a regulatory environment where only safety would need to be established and perhaps patients could finance their own treatment in phase 1 could help us out of this near complete suspended animation in development of a large range of oncology treatments.

When ernemef recently posted about a targeted radioactive treatment and the success it was having in the clinic I was quite surprised because I had read about that approach years and years ago and believed that it must not have worked out because I had not heard any recent reports.

If we could simply set up the right basic structure everything could take care of itself. Adam Smith's recipe for a well functioning ecomomy is surprisingly brief: self-interest, limited government and free trade. A 2 or 3 point plan to modernize the clinical trial process would move us so much closer to our goal than yet more elaborate and highly expensive big science projects.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 08:47 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, your actions, reactions are quite puzzling. With this last reply you suggest to know more about the plans of Dr Ko than we do? If so, please elaborate! But unless you are the person I spoke with on the phone tonight for more than 1 hour, I assume you are making things up? kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by chris1023 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:39 AM                   Quote | Reply

Finder, I am finding your reply's and accusations quite upsetting and why you are so puzzled.

But no I have never spoken to you.

Yes, I probably do know more plans then you do.

If you would like to discuss this I would be happy to call you on the phone should you provide your name and number.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sat Nov 12, 2016 02:00 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, There is no need to feel accused. I am just being cautious and hesitant to interact here with people who come, to my opinion, storming in with detailed questions and unverifiable claims. As you may well know, since the Bracht catastrophe, 3-BP is under scrutiny by the AG in Germany. This has resulted in an increase of visits to sites discussing 3-BP by journalists and a lot of other people. You should be able to understand that under these circumstances, your questions do arouse some hesitation, at least that is the case with me. And if you further seem to imply that you do know things about a clinical trial in which Dr Ko is involved, then I am puzzled. And curious, eager to learn more. And if you are provinding some good reasons, I will call you. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Mon Nov 14, 2016 07:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear chris1023, so far no reply to my post. I am still waiting for your additional explanations on the Ko trial, and a good reason for your agressive questions, and the total lack of feedback on my explanations to your previous supposed questions. You are not doing a good job for building a base of confidence with me. It is up to you to prove my wrong. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Nov 14, 2016 08:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear finder, chris might be as frustrated as the rest of us to get our thread back on track. It's been months and months. Is there any word about the investigation into Bracht? The issue about how Germany might want to comprehenively modify its alternative medicine system clearly will be a lengthy political process, though the specific question of what happened at the Bracht clinic should, one would think, now have answers. Our thread is very much interested in and looking forward to these answers.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Nov 15, 2016 08:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

Always great to hear good news. Little bit unsure whether the good news is somehow entangled with the insider trading allegations.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/dramatic-remissions-in-blood-cance

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Wed Nov 16, 2016 04:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, I am also frustrated by the disaster in Germany. But I am working very hard behind the screens to try to get some positive things out of it. I have probably paraphrased Rahm Emananuel here: "Never let a good crisis go to waste". The extra attention Bracht has caused in the media, has had several results so far, as judging from the MSm reporting. There is more widespread attention to 3BP than before by cancerpatients. Some of the relatives of deceased patients have comitted to the benefits of 3BP,despite the death of their relatives. This is in relation to the fact that these patients were already given up, sent home to die. Combined with the observation that the treatment with 3BP seemed to improve the quality of live of these patients, it was sufficient for the relatives to declare this in a Dutch MSM journal. Furthermore, the German legislation has so far not ruled against the system of "Natur Heiler". The exact rules for 3BP application are under revision, but the essence of German law still allows to use 3BP at the discretion and professional responsability of the doctor involved. So far some of the facts. I can do a lot of speculation, but I rather refrain from that for the moment. But I stay with my remarks to chris: if you come up with claims, ask questions, try to be open about your goals. It is reassuring to know that a person is of good intentions. I hope I still have that impression from the other posters at this thread. Kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Nov 22, 2016 08:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Finder: It has been really tough waiting this one out. Is there anything yet from the authorities on the investigation? Do you have any urls from the post above from Dutch media? I would love to hear some of the comments from the families who thought that there was at least a symptomatic benefit.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, some links to articles in Dutch media: http://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2115593/Apeldoornse-na http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/oud-patienten-geloven-ni http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4516/Gezondheid/article/detail/436 http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/gezondheid/patient-omstreden-natuurg All in Dutch, but Google can help you. At the moment, there is almost perfect silence in the media. I will report if things do change. kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 02:18 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear finder, thank you for those links. Those articles were very different in tone then almost all of the English language commentary that I have read online. I am not sure how one can go about breaking out of the anglo-Google world to the deutch-Google one.

Came across this online. Sounds interesting. Are they really saying that they could specifically target cancer cells with 3-BP using CXCL12. Could be extremely powerful if true. Comments please!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by peggyznd on Sun Nov 27, 2016 01:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Do you have a link to this article. I cannot find the exact article, so wonder if there is a corrected title or actual link.

Peggy

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 04:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

Peggy, you posting to me?

I see what others meant how it can sometimes get a little confusing knowing who is posting to whom.

Looks like the kids might be ready to show us how its done with 3-BP. Everyone with a basic level of biology who reads our thread at least has to admit that there is a whole lot of horsepower under the hood of the 3-BP rocketship. If the kids at the science fair can find a way of uncorking the potential it would not be hard to imagine massive responses.

Any approach that could find a way to specifically target 3-BP to cancer cells should have extreme anti-cancer effects. I am quite vague though about CXCL12. About all I can guess is 3-BP bonded to CXCL12 which hones to the cancer vasculature.

Anyone be in the North Jersey area sometime around March of next year. Wonder if someone biotech recruiters will be paying attention.

http://www.njrsf.org/

http://www.njrsf.org/ cgi-bin/CatList.pl

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 05:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

I have no clue at all where the CXCL12 fits in with 3-BP, though the below definitely seems quite interesting. Is it really possible to have a chemotaxic drug act as a chemical robot? That would be very cool! Any help figuring this out would be greatly appreciated.

"It has also been shown that CXCL12 signalling regulates the expression of CD20 on B cells.[16]CXCL12 is also chemotactic for mesenchymal stem cellsand is expressed in the area of inflammatory bone destruction, where it mediates their suppressive effect on osteoclastogenesis"

For instance, blockingCXCR4, the receptor for CXCL12, withPlerixafor(AMD-3100) increased the effectiveness of combretastatin in a mouse model of breast cancer, presumably by preventing macrophages from being recruited to tumours.[15][16]Furthermore, CXCL12 signaling in conjunction with CXCR7 signaling has been implicated in the progression of pancreatic cancer.[5]In the urinary tract system, methylation of the CXCL12 promoter and expression of PD-L1 may be powerful prognostic biomarkers for biochemical recurrence in prostate carcinoma patients after radical prostatectomy, and further studies are ongoing to confirm if CXCL12 methylation may aid in active surveillance strategies.[25]In the field of oncology, melanoma associated fibroblasts are stimulated by stimulation of the A2B adenosine receptor followed by stimulation of fibroblast growth factor and increased expression of CXCL12"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromal_cell-derived_factor_1

"Chemical robots that use artificial chemotaxis to navigate autonomously have been designed. Applications include targeted delivery of drugs in the body."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemotaxis

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by peggyznd on Sun Nov 27, 2016 07:21 PM                   Quote | Reply

Is there some one in this science fair whose work centers on 3-BP? Still don't find a good link, but maybe it is my search engine.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 08:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes. The link that I posted included the entry about 3-BP.

Here it is again.

Anything that could direct 3-BP directly to cancer cells obviously could be extremely potent.

http://www.njrsf.org/cgi-bin/CatList.pl

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 08:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear finder, could you help me out? Where might they be going with CXCL12 and 3-BP? Big mystery, to me. Would it be preconditioning the tumor area with something like Plerixafor as noted on the wiki page and then using free 3-BP that is somehow attracted to the altered CXCL12 cells? No idea, on this one.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by peggyznd on Sun Nov 27, 2016 08:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

Let us know when these are reviewed by the judges and that will be helpful.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:30 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am not seeing the Saudi Journal of Medicine and Medical Sciences in pubmed. Article covered the 3-BP terrain quite well.

Would have like to see 7-aminocarboxycoumarins  mentioned https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24672058 and perhaps methyglyoxal, though they might have been thought as off the trail.

A sobering quote near the end of the article:

"Being antagonized by reduced glutathione and N-acetyl cysteine, 3BP can be considered as a safe chemotherapeutic agent. When signs of overdosage, toxicity, or undesirable side effects develop after 3BP administration, reduced glutathione or N-acetyl cysteine can be given immediately as a rescue therapy."

This is not exactly news to those on the thread, though one certainly wonders whether the patients at the Bracht clinic might still be alive if this advice had been followed. Treating with NAC instead of vitamin C might have helped. I am not sure whether even the hospitals who cared for the Bracht patients treated with it. That is likely a question of interest in the investigation. Perhaps part of the German investigation should consider how 3-BP rescue treatment with NAC or reduced glutathione should be understood to be standard of care.

http://www.sjmms.net/article.asp?issn=1658-631X;year=2017;vo

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Nov 29, 2016 05:22 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, I am afraid I have to disagree. If 3-BP is formulated inappropriately, it will start by damaging the blood cells and the lining of the bloodvessels. This will result in blood cloths, finally obstructing the major veins and other vessels, especially capillaries in the brain. Within minutes resulting in damage and ultimately, death. NAC nor glutathionin can save one, however fast given. It can only help to supress a short pulse of 3BP in the bloodsystem, but the blood itself can more than adequately cope with this under normal physiological surcumstances. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Nov 29, 2016 05:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Friends, based on personal experience, as seen on CT, ALA IV given 24h after 3BP injection in the tumor, succeeded to help protect the tumor against 3BP action. That was not the case when ALA was not given. Based on this, I expect that it depends on how high the overdose is. If that is not too high, strong antioxidants given IV may help the normal cells survive. If the dose is way too high, there may be nothing to save.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Nov 29, 2016 06:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Danielus, glad to hear from you! We hope all is well with you, which is a strange wish given the circumstances. But you will, we hope appreciate our support for your cause. As for antioxidants in combination with 3BP, I think there are several reports in scientific literature that show that 3BP can be counteracted with NAC, glutathionine. In general, antioxidants do supress secondary effects of 3BP, whereas NAC directly interacts with 3BP on a molecular basis. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Nov 29, 2016 06:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

D, thanks for stepping in on this one. When I read the Saudi article it occurred to me this is a pivotally important question related to the Bracht incident. It was apparently understood very early on that something was going south at Bracht. Administering the rescue treatment at that time might have been helpful. I wondered if the vitamin C that was given might have been of some help. It seems doubly tragic that there might have been an effective rescue for Bracht, though it was unrecognized. I will be very interested to see how the investigation considers this aspect of the Bracht tragedy.

We talked about the reduced gluthione and the patent related to 3-BP treatment (?). Might look that one up again and see what it said. I am glad that you mentioned the distinction between rescuing normal cells and cancer cells. If TLS were the problem, then stopping the 3-BP effect would be important. If it were more about an overdose that was affecting normal cells, then the question really is how strong of a rescue effect there would be. I can see what Finder means about rescue therapy probably not being too helpful once for example brain ischemia has been ongoing for a while. The Bracht patients were reported to have these stroke like signs. Rescuing patients at that stage might be difficult.

D, have you had experience with reduced GSH when it helped rescue normal cells more so than cancer cells? I think I remember you mentioning how you had a bottle of reduced GSH on hand for safety.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Nov 29, 2016 06:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, I can not imagine a toxic effect of 3BP which can not be countered by a healthy body, if acute problems are avoided. 3BP is an eager molecule, trying to react with exposed SH -groups on proteins and small molecules like NAC and glutathionine. This is its primary way of working. But it has a number of additional properties, making it suitable for cancer killing. It is readily transported by MCT1, overexpressed in many solid tumors. The combination of specifically reacting with enzymes involved in glycolysis, being transported by MCT 1, and releasing Ca ions from damaged mitochondria (thank you, Jcancom for the hint!), makes 3BP a type of medication without any serious competitor, at this time of writing. Regardless the (assumed) enormous input from big pharma to come up with an alternative. Until now, 3bp sets the level at which big pharma will have to play. Eventually, they will succeed. kind regards, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:12 AM                   Quote | Reply

Here's a patent on reduced glutathione. This might have been the one we discussed on the thread earlier. I had not remembered that this patent claimed that reduced glutathione could actually have anti-cancer treatment effects.

https://www.google.ca/patents/WO2013103840A1?cl=en&dq=glutathione+3-Bromopyruvate&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy3euojdfQAhVD54MKHc7mChMQ6AEIHDAA

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by dumbcritic on Mon Dec 05, 2016 05:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

From Krebs to clinic: glutamine metabolism to cancer therapy http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v16/n10/full/nrc.2016.71.h

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Tue Dec 06, 2016 06:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear dumbcritic, thanks for the link. It remains however, a tantalizing question how one can discuss metabolic changes in tumours without even mentioning the Warburg effect in relation to 3BP? And I just read another review on metabolic properties of cancer, focussing on the Warburg effect, without even mentioning the impressive work of Pedersen and Ko? What is going on? kind regards, finder

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 17, 2016 08:55 PM                   Quote | Reply

I do not remember whether or not the thread has talked about the below research before, though I am impressed. This would seem to be an ideal combo for 3-BP. There are not that many escape routes open to cancer cells upon 3-BP treatment though the oxygenation status surrounding the tumor would be one of the more obvious ones. Very smart idea using an anerobic microbe to attack cancer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2033871/Soil-bacte

A while back I received a brown envelope which showed the history of a patient treated with 3-BP. Initially the patient had a very strong response, though once the hypoxic region of the tumor was unveiled 3-BP lost effectiveness. Having an anerobic therapy might help capture more of 3-BPs potential. Perhaps it might be necessary to do some tinkering though because from what I understand the url above requires direct tumor injection. Might there be a way to package such a therapy which could be given systemically?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Dec 17, 2016 09:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear J,

More than a year ago, after connecting various pieces of information and type of response to 3BP in patients, I came up with the idea that there may be reponse to 3BP only in the regions of the tumor exposed to oxygen  http://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=125. When that idea came to my mind it was an AHA moment and I still belive in it. But that was just a theory, and I do not have yet evidence to support that. Should I understand that you now have evidence to support that in the "brown envelope"? If yes, can you please share more on the evidence?

A little more about treatments with Clostridium http://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/?p=1207.

Kind regards,

Daniel

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

There D, this was from a patient we looked at off thread from an email of 8-18-2015. The first CT was dated 5/2011. The patient was nomically described as stage 4 bladder.

The patient had a truly monumental cancer burden. Liver, pancreas, prostate... Pretty much the entire mid-chest.

3-BP initially seemed to have short term effectiveness. After a month of treatment: pancreatic lesion no longer visible, pelvic lesion no longer visible, sacral mass no longer visible. Yet, there remained a huge amount of tumor. Tumor did not respond after the first round and became resistent. Tumor only appeared to be responsive for about a month.

Those looking for the downside would say well that really has no clinical relevance. The patient would receive no sustained benefit, and likely achieve zero increase in life expectancy. That would be true, though cancer is typically like that, it wouldn't be defeated with just one victory.

The ominous implication also is that 3-BP might in some circumstances simply potentiate the hypoxic tumor mass to express resistance.

There are not that many metabolic escape routes available to a cancer cell with 3-BP. It would be very interesting to see what might happen if there were combo 3-BP and anaerobic treatment.

As a note, the above referenced patient was treated with

TACE; not clear if there was one treatment or more over a period of one week. The conclusion noted that more dosing would be necessary. Also larger tumore simply would not receive adequate 3-BP. This is somewhat strange because there are other largish 3-BP TACE responses out there online, so it seems quite reasonable to expect that this patient would have done better if more than a week of treatment had been given.

D, do you read this patient report in the same way? Is this a question of induced resistance due to uncovering hypoxia?

The biological rationale being that MCT expression is driven by oxygen levels.

All the best of the season to you, D, and to all of our friends on the thread!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

A lot of the time I feel that I am a step or two behind the researchers when they think up a novel approach to cancer therapy. Targeting hypoxic regions with anaerobic bacteria is very smart. The articles describe how this treatment has a surgical precision. The bacteria can only survive in an environment without oxygen.

Research was also out of Hopkins.

A combo with 3-BP would appear to be a very helpful strategy.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

D, something that I also found interesting in reading about this was that such bacteria might be behind the large anti-tumor responses reporte by Colley many years ago.

I also found it interesting that one article suggested that anerobic bacteria might now become used in alternative cancer treatment. Is this legal? Could alternative medicine actually use bacteria found in dirt as a treatment?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

D, should have consulted your webpage. You were all over the Clostridium story and have a great write-up for it. Some of the media reports were using the phrases "cancer cure" applicable to a wide range of tumor types. What would cancer be like if there were no areas of hypoxia? Would cancer then be an illness that could be truly considered a manageable chronic disease? Cancer is so protean, it never appears to have an attackable weakness that is always present: hypoxic regions would be one such weakness.These hypoxic regions could be especially dangerous because they occur where the blood vessels have grown well beyond their supply lines. They would be the deep seated tumor masses.

Perhaps hypoxic regions would be less vulnerable to apoptosis and free radicals becasue their mitochondria would not be capable of functioning without oxygen.

D, do you also see the substantial potential of a combo 3-BP and anaerobic treatment?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:10 AM                   Quote | Reply

3-BP enters through simple diffusion. Is that a new one?

"one of the most extensively studied anticancer compounds is 3-bromopyruvate [89]. It is well known that 3BP enters cancer cells not only by speci?c MCTs but also by simple diffusion "

free full text

http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/21/12/1730

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Dec 18, 2016 07:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry everyone I am just so excited by these Clostridium bacteria that I can't let go of them!

The research that I have read suggests that these bacteria can create molecular scale margins that are not possible surgically. The bacteria will destroy the hypoxic cells right up to the normoxic cells. Any cancer therapy that is that specific should have very significant treatment effects. Research has also mentioned that the genetic engineering of Clostridium really has only started with novyi NT. Any of its genes could modified or any other gene could be added in. We are only getting started with this and D's references show that there have already been patient responses.

I would love to see what might happen if they were to do a Clostridium oncolytic virus combo. Perhaps the endospores could be invected with the virus. When the endospore opened up inside the hypoxic zone the virus could start to multiply. The great part of this is that the hypoxic zone is apparently immune privledged. What I understand that to mean is that immune cells would not have entry, thus the viruses could replicate without being attacked by the immune system. Once the bacteria had cleared all of the hypoxic cancer cells, the pool of virus would then be able to infect and lyze cancer cells in the normoxic zone.

I'd also love to see what would happen if the bacteria were genetically engineered to be luminescent. Photodynamic therapy could then be used. Here again the great part is that once all the hypoxic cancer cells had been eliminated the bacterial light source would be right on the margin between hypoxia and normoxia. This might allow for a treatment effect perhaps 1 cm beyond where the bacteria would be effective. There might even be a way to amplify the luminescent effect using radiation or a chemical introduced into the treatment enviroment.

Some of the other research noted that apparently hypoxic regions can actually occur in quite small tumors. It would be such an amazing chance to enter the tumor at the centre and attack from the inside out. Most approaches start on the outside and work in, this is known to be hopelessly ineffective because the hypoxic zone does not have the environment necessary for cancer cell lysis. Up till this point the outside in therapies can be fairly effective, though the remaining cells that are not destroyed then cause tumor rebound. Removing the inside and beyond with bacteria etc. could be a very effective approach.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by finder on Sun Dec 18, 2016 08:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, please do not get too overexcited by the Clostridium, Candida might be an other source. I personally do not accept these theories.What is factual,is that many lipopolysaccharides fom the glycocalyx of several bacteria, are able to induce  the conversion of monocytes into macrophages. And macrophages are involved in the innate immne system. And this is really complicated. kind regrads, finder.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Dec 18, 2016 09:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Finder, yes my previous enthusiasms have been nearly entirely shown subsequently, as evidenced by our thread, to have been misplaced. Notwithstanding, I still will call it (somewhat hesitantly) partypooping, though with cancer fair enough if you can see daylight odds are slim that you will actual reach that daylight before that 6'5 300 pound linebacker makes contact.

I am really interested to see what the translational scientists will add onto Clostridium treatment. In one of the studies they found there was large responses in 30% of mice. Might probiotics up that number as it did with ipilimumab? What genetic changes might be helpful? For example might the bacteria start making paracetamol or 3-BP? There is a whole lot of road out there and it will be very interesting to see how they will amp up Clostri.

I am especially excited about the potential to actually meaningfully redefine what cancer is. Eliminating hypoxic zones would clearly do that. There is self-apparent strategy that cancer could use to counter this effect. For all the research that has been done, nothing that I am aware of has actually fundamentally change the essence of cancer in such a way.

On D's site, one of the posters wanted to know whether alternative clinics are offering this. Some of the websites were also suggesting that this might move to alternative clinics. I found this surprising. Apparently, genetically modified engineered organisms as medicine are required to not only receive FDA approval but also approval from a branch of the NIH. Would it really be legal for an alternative clinic to find some high school kids to CRISPeR up some Clostri? Considering that a phase 1 for these bacteria has already been published this might be legal under Right to Try.

Best Wishes of the season to you, Finder.

I am sure all of us on the thread are looking forward to a Great Year for 3-BP in 2017.

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