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Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by aleyderm on Thu Apr 19, 2012 04:16 PM                   Quote | Reply

I would like to know if anyone used 3-bp? Any fedback.

Thanks

Anna

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Wildyorkie on Fri Apr 20, 2012 02:47 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yvar Verhoeven was the first person in a small group of patients with different kinds of cancer to be treated with Dr. Young Hee Ko's patented formulation of 3-bromopyruvate (3-BrPA). It was administered intra-arterially by Univ. Prof. med. Dr. Thomas J. Vogl, Direktor, Institut für Diagnostische und Interventionelle Radiologie at the Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität in Frankfurt am Main, Germany.

Yvar had inoperable infiltrative liver cancer which had spread beyond his liver. He initially responded to Bayer's Sorafenib a/k/a Nexavar, which is the "gold standard" of liver cancer drugs. Inevitably, his response to Nexavar diminished.

As a last resort, he was given a series of 3-bromopyruvate treatments. As expected, it eradicated his liver cancer.

Unfortunately, Yvar's liver had been so severely injured by his cancer that it could not sufficiently detoxify the ammonia in his blood. He died nearly a year later after the initiation of 3-bromopyruvate treatment.

During the period of Yvar's treatment with 3-bromopyruvate, which does not have the severe side effects associated with conventional chemotherapy, he had recovered sufficiently to tour the United States and to make a presentation from the perspective of a patient at The Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, which was arranged by Professor Peter L. Pedersen, who was Dr. Ko's mentor.

References

3-bromopyruvate (3BP) a fast acting, promising, powerful, specific, and effective "small molecule" anti-cancer agent taken from labside to bedside: introduction to a special issue Pedersen PLJ Bioenerg Biomembr. 2012 Feb; 44 (1) :1-6. http://pubmed.gov/22382780  abstract

A translational study “case report” on the small molecule “energy blocker” 3-bromopyruvate (3BP) as a potent anticancer agent: from bench side to bedside Ko YH, Verhoeven HA, Lee MJ, Corbin DJ, Vogl TJ, Pedersen PL J Bioenerg Biomembr. 2012 Feb; 44 (1) :163-70. Epub 2012 Feb 11. Free full text:http://www.springerlink.com/content/lmt051224x321501

Univ. Prof. med. Dr. Thomas J. Vogl Direktor, Institut für Diagnostische und Interventionelle Radiologie http://radiologie-uni-frankfurt.de/content/e1269/e1621/index

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by aleyderm on Fri Apr 20, 2012 02:55 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you. I have read this report. I would love to hear from someone who is using/used it to treat their cancer.

Do you know anyone? You can send me a private reply. Thanks Anna

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Wildyorkie on Fri Apr 20, 2012 03:32 AM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry, I don't know anyone. What hospital are you using?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by aleyderm on Fri Apr 20, 2012 03:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am not using it, just trying to get information.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by vivodood on Fri Jun 22, 2012 04:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

I had multiple intravenous infusions of 3-bp over one month in 2011 with hopes to treat cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by aleyderm on Mon Jun 25, 2012 04:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

Can you please share your experience with it me. You can send a private reply.

Thanks

Anna

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by akhvat on Tue Jun 26, 2012 03:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

My friend is considering 3bp for her mother. In the paper you mentioned they specifically discussed special formulation for 3bp. Could you please share your experience or thoughts about 3bp based treatment.

thank you in advance

Alex

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by onlinerichard on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:02 AM                   Quote | Reply

Alex,

Did you get any information on 3BP and who was using etc.  I'm interested also. Need to find a doctor who is familiar with it. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Richard Tade

Memphis, TN

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by onlinerichard on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:06 AM                   Quote | Reply

Anna,

Were you successful in finding anyone who is or had used 3BP. If so, please share with me. I'm trying to find a doctor who is familiar with it.

Thanks,  Richard Tade in Memphis

Page 2

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by akhvat on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Richard,

Based on information I have right now the only reliable contact is:

Univ. Prof. med. Dr. Thomas J. Vogl, Direktor, Institut für Diagnostische und Interventionelle Radiologie at the Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität in Frankfurt am Main, Germany

I have it from some papers and previous posts on CancerCompass. Some centers trying to use it but the main problem is a complexity of the procedure: intra-arterial administration and patented formulation of 3-BP.

I am trying to find contact info for Dr. Ko to discuss available options. If I have more info I will share it with you.

Alex

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by invicta on Fri Jan 04, 2013 09:54 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi,

Does anyone have any information about the 3bp being offered as a trial or treatment option anywhere? Or how one can get in touch with the researchers to find out if its a treatment possibility for HCC?

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by hellene on Thu Feb 07, 2013 05:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Can you please share your experience? And where did this happen?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by hellene on Thu Feb 07, 2013 05:44 PM                   Quote | Reply

Can you please share your experience? 3BP administration is described in full detail in its patent and the special formulation can be produced by anyone with laboratory experience and laboratory access. The drug was NOT patented with the purpose of making money and the patent serves as a diseminator of information.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by hellene on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

How did you have intravenous injections when the drug is supposed to be given intraarterially by continuous infusion rather than bolous injections?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Why-Me on Sun Sep 15, 2013 03:02 AM                   Quote | Reply

From what I have read this drug showed excellent results on Rats back in 2009, what happened since then, where were all the clinical trials on people carried out.

In 4 years you would have thought some positive news would have come out somewhere in world.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by DrFlavin on Fri Sep 19, 2014 08:10 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Anna, They should have considered using HepaMerz, the Ornithine aspartate to lower the ammonia, stem cell therapy to regrow the liver and reactivating the immune system, such as with cytoxan and cimetidine to lower the T regs and MDSC.

Where do they buy 3BP, do you know?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by DrFlavin on Fri Sep 19, 2014 08:11 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dr. Pedersen at Johns Hopkins

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

This company http://presciencelabs.com/ was going to put it in to Phase I trials for liver, breast, pancreatic, lung, and ovarian cancers. I'm not sure what happened to them?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by walsero on Fri Sep 26, 2014 04:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Richard, I see that your post is few years old. Am wondering if you had any recent information on 3BP usage.

thanks

Walter Kim

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by walsero on Fri Sep 26, 2014 04:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Hellene,

I was wondering if you had any new information on usage of 3BP?

thanks

Walter Kim

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by bobstar on Sat Sep 27, 2014 03:47 PM                   Quote | Reply

Have a look into these sources from Dr Morse if you wish and have a greater insight and equip yourself with the tools to self healing and curing one of any systematic breakdowns that may occur .

http://www.altcancer.com/cantest12.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5n_bRmMA5Q

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Nov 09, 2014 09:43 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi James,

What do you think about the aerosole delivery? 3BP is avaiable from China, so is accessible.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

The 3BrPA you can buy is not the same one that is used for cancer as they have to change the pH and so on

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Nov 10, 2014 03:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes, indeed is not the same. But not very different and I have the filling (based on the published articles) that while the changes of 3BP are helpfull are also not fundamental. Sometimes you need to do that in order to get a patent ;)

The pH change may be required for the systemic delivery but may not be required for the aerosol option.

I will have a closer look at their patents anyway.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Mortwayne on Tue Nov 18, 2014 03:59 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am new to this board. Upon review it appears that 3BP was discoverd by Dr Young Ko at John Hopkins and apparently patented. Upon further study, I find that the drug is currently under phase I FDA approved clinical trial by a biotech company called Prescience Labs who claims to have the drug patented. I see no referrence to Dr. Ko associated with this company. Does anyone know the relationship between these two and / or the status of the drug.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Wildyorkie on Thu Nov 20, 2014 03:44 AM                   Quote | Reply

You are correct that the anti-cancer properties of 3-bromopyruvate were solely discovered by Dr. Young Ko.

According to abstract of the editorial intitled as, "3-Bromopyruvate (3BP) a fast acting, promising, powerful, specific, and effective "small molecule" anti-cancer agent taken from labside to bedside: introduction to a special issue, "  J Bioenerg Biomembr.2012 Feb;44(1):1-6, by Professor Peter L. Pedersen, http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10863-012-9425-4,  which is quoted in part here:

"Finally, the author's laboratory turned to the most important objective. Could they selectively and completely destroy cancerous tumors in animals? This led to the discovery in an experiment conceived, designed, and conducted by Young Ko that the small molecule 3-bromopyruvate (3BP), the subject of this mini-review series, is an incredibly powerful and swift acting anticancer agent. Significantly, in  subsequent experiments with rodents (19 animals with advanced cancer) Ko led a project in which 3BP was shown in a short treatment period to eradicate all (100%). Ko's and co-author's findings once published attracted global attention leading world-wide to many other studies and publications related to 3BP and its potent anti-cancer effect. "

In the full text of the editorial, Professor Pedersen explains:

'''"As indicated in the abstract, that task was accomplished single handedly by Young Ko with whom the co-authors were collaborating and published at the turn of this new century (Ko et al. 2001). Whether by good fortune, serendipity, brilliance or all three, in Ko’s first experiment to find a novel anticancer agent she chose to use the small molecule 3BP among the potential anticancer compounds selected. Significantly, she had worked with this compound at Washington State University prior to coming to Johns Hopkins as a Postdoctoral Fellow and was the only person working on the project with “hands on” knowledgeable about 3BP’s unique properties. Of the agents Ko chose to test in her first experiment, 3BP was by far the most potent in killing cancer cells that exhibit a “Warburg effect” (Ko et al. 2001). Later she would lead a team effort that resulted in the complete eradication of cancers growing in 19 animals. Tumors in all 19 animals were eradicated by 3BP treatment and lived out their lives without return of cancer (Ko et al. 2004). Significantly, Ko’s work on 3BP led to all that follows below."'''

Prescience Labs does not own any patents in the U.S. for 3-bromopyruvate. Johns Hopkins and the National Cancer Institute have assignment of the older 3-bromopyruvate patents. The improved 3-bromopyruvate formulations are both patented and owned by Dr. Young Ko.

Dr. Ko is not associated Prescience Labs. They previously stated that they had raised $3 million towards a clinical trial.

 

 

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi

Im also trying to find 3BrPa, have you tryed the Chinese one or found any other source?

Thanks

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Nov 26, 2014 05:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi, I did received the Chinese version but havent tried that yet. How do you intend to use it?

Regards,

Daniel

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Wed Nov 26, 2014 05:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Daniel

Its for my dad actually, he has lung cancer and I know that for paitients with lung cancer the aerosolized type has been administered. Im also looking into Metformin and Salinomycin. Can you pls post a link to where you purchased yours. Thanks

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Page 4

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Nov 26, 2014 09:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Alex,

I am sorry to hear about your dad, but I believe that your proactive way of approaching this challenge will lead to a posityive outcome for him. I actually know somebody (a friend) who, a few years ago had lung cancer (very large tumor) and the hospital gave him a few months only. Today he i cancer free. We do not know exactly what worked for him but we believe that the DCA and Diclofenac combination was the cause.

I am not aware of 3BP administrated to humans in this way, i.e. aerosolized. I only know of the local administration performed in Germany for the liver cancer case. If you have a link to a study where 3BP was aerosolized to humans would be great if you can share that here.

I can give you the contact to the Chinese supplier but I can do that via a private channel since I do not know if she will like to have her e-mail shared here. Also, please note that while I checked the quality of other products Ive got from her, I do not know anything about the quality of 3BP they supply. I still have to test that somehow.

If you consider Metformin, it may be a good idea to also add Chloroquine to cancel the autophagy inducing effect of Metformin: was http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22593441

In addition, Chloroquine is anyway very effective against many types of cancer.

However, I would probably first try DCA and if that is not effective I would consider Metformin, since Metformin may inhibit mithochondrial function which is supposed to be what DCA tries to bring back to normal.

Salinomycin is also a very interesting option - I have it at home but because of its narrow working latitude and potential toxicity I keep it as a option that I hope it will not be needed   :) As you probably know, it has been tested on humans in Germany with very positive results.

Baicalein is another component that you may want to consider - highly effective natural component relevant for lung cancer as well. The only challenge here is related to the fact that Baicalein is not water soluble ... but DMSO will do the job.

Finally, if you have any additional info on 3BP that will be very helpful.

Regards,

Daniel

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Nov 28, 2014 03:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

I guess that is not 3-bromopyruvate related?

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RE: Cannabis oil for cancer and many other health issues
by housemaid on Sat Nov 29, 2014 08:24 AM                   Quote | Reply

This is my first post here. I am not sure how to just add on a post without "replying" to the last post on this thread. (My post is not about cannabis.)

I thought I would just give a link to a recent discussion about 3bp, for what it is worth. Most of you may have read this already, but I found it interesting.

http://www.resveratrolnews.com/cancer-cured-again/1077/

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RE: Cannabis oil for cancer and many other health issues
by housemaid on Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:29 AM                   Quote | Reply

Do you mean "Post New Discussion"? I don't see any "Start New Thread". Wouldn't that start an entirely new thread and not be put onto this thread? I am using Internet Explorer with Windows 8.1. Maybe I am not seeing the right thing to click on and should switch to Firefox.

Anyway, yes, I have read about cannabis oil for cancer and watched a video about it on YouTube. I think it does work for some and wish it was available in my state. I do not yet have cancer myself and am more into prevention, having seen relatives die of it. But if I did have cancer, I would move to a state where I could get cannabis and try it.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:46 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yes Dayspring (www.dayspringcancerclinic.com) is using 3-bp as one of its big guns. We have permission from our IRB to use 3-bp and are working to make this product available to those that are interested in a low toxicity, high efficacy compound to treat cancer. Of course Dayspring has many other modalities to use that support and enhance 3-bp.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:30 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Danielus

Thank you for all the info. I will try to find that article about the aerosolized admn of 3BP and post it. I am not sure if the aerosolized delivery method of 3BP has been tested on humans yet but I know it has been done in mice model, and I know there is a patent application for different delivery methods including aerosolized. I will look that up...

http://www.google.com/patents/EP2555767A2?cl=en

I will apreciate if you could give me the info of your 3BP supplier and if you could tell me where did you get the Salinomycin. I think you can send a private message, via the forum I'm not sure Im allowed to post my email address here  My dad is already taking DCA and honestly we have not noticed any improvements on the contrary his health is deteriorating daily.

Thanks

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Dickens,

Thanks for the information. This is very valuable.

Do you know if the 3-BP formuation used by the clinic is same as used by Dr. Ko? Also, do you have any idea what is the price range they are considering for 3BP treatment? Are they doing these treatments for longer time or they just started?

What was the mistake releated to Geschwind? On pubmed I see he did had some contribution related to 3BP?

I guess that is great about Dr. Ko formulation but for cancers such as skin, lungs, bladder where 3BP can be delivered directly it may a;lso be possible to use 3BP without the special formulation? Or am I wrong? What do you think?

Daniel

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Nov 29, 2014 01:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Alex,

I just sent you the info where you can get 3BP (and Salinomycin)

Regarding DCA there are many reasons it may not work. Here are a few things that may help:

- increase dose until neurophaty and then decrease a bit the dose (add alpha lipoic acid and B1 next to it) - check different DCA source (the one you use may not be active) - MDR1may be overexpressed --> try to inhibit this in paralel with the DCA administration using e.g. Verapamil (240mg to 480mg/day) - add coffee as suggested on the DCA website - add a pump inhibitor (such as Omeprazole) to  reduce acidity around the tumor - add DMSO (nebulized in water) that may facilitate the DCA access into the cells

Otherwise, DCA may not work because the tumor cells:

- are using glutamine as a fuel - are using glucose but they have no mithocandria left

Actually, maybe a first question (relevant for 3BP as well) is wether the tumors are visible on PET scan?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Sat Nov 29, 2014 01:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you

We are noticing the neuropathy side effects and added B1 and Alphalipoic Acid but my dad coudn't tolerate the AlphAcid so we are only on B1.

-Im asuming since neuropathy effects are present DCA it is indeed active

- we are using DCA in combination with Avemar

We dont know if cancer is visible on PET scan because my dad refused to get one...but since 95% + of them are, Im assuming and hopping we are in that categorry

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RE: Cannabis oil for cancer and many other health issues
by ReleaseMe on Sat Nov 29, 2014 01:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Click reply on the bottem of the post you what to reply to, type your massage and click the quote the message Iam replying to underneath the message box. Or hit the reply on the message you what to reply to and type the persons name that you are talking to.

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Page 5

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Sat Nov 29, 2014 02:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dr Dickens

you are absolutelly right that purity and delivery are very important aspects of the treatement. Regarding the 3BP treatements at the DaySpring clinic do you know what is their approach if any, for patients that are in the US and not able to come to the clinic. Is there a formulation of the drug that can be made avaiable to outside patients?

Thank you

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Nov 29, 2014 02:18 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Dr. Dickens,

Thanks for the answer. Great to hear about the tentative results!

I realize how much work is behind and highly appreciate the contribution of Dr. Ko to this world!

I totally agree with your point, but lets not forget that until now (with your anouncement) 3BP treatment was not accessible. Even with the treatment at the clinik you mentioned, 3BP treatment will still not be accessible to many, at least due to their own financial situation. And just reading about the great science behind it and not doing anything is not helpful. And in this context, when you can get it from China at an accessible price you may still want to try it. I guess sterility may be not a real issue when the administration goes via nebulizer. And then there are relatively easy ways you can also sterizlize 3BP at home since it is water soluble   :) But anyway, we need to study the patent of Dr. Ko first   :)

In any case, if I can take my wife to a profesional to administrate 3BP instead of doing it at home, that is clearly what I would do first. On this line, could you please send me you e-mail address to ask some more practical questions?

Thank you and all the best to you too.

Daniel

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Nov 29, 2014 02:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

Alex, Dayspring Cancer Clinic is in the US

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by AlexCornila on Sat Nov 29, 2014 02:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

I know they are in US but the patient is not and unable to travel. I detailed that in private to you earlier.

Thanks

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Nov 29, 2014 03:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

Alex, I didnt received any private msg :)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

It is not legal to treat patients without being established as a patient at Dayspring. Which at a minimum involves an in-office intake. The 3-BP protocol which we personally use has three components, one of which is given by an IV.

I do not know of a formulation that is avoids IV's but I can find out and post at some point in the future.

All the Best! Dr Dickens

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Sun Nov 30, 2014 08:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

I investigated about an oral product and unfortunately there is not one available to me at this time. We will have the protocol only available in clinic at his time.

Dr Dickens

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:13 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dayspring Cancer Clinic has had an IRB (Institutional Review Board) accept our proposal to institute the use of 3bp in our clinic for cancer treatment.

We have looked at the research and are extremely impressed by what the literature shows. Given the lack of positive outcomes in conventional oncology we are very hopeful in this metabolic approach of cancer treatment.

Anyone who wants to know why the conventional medical approach to cancer has failed so dramatically and why these approaches will continue to fail should read "Tripping Over the Truth" by Travis Christofferson. Easily read and succinctly encapsulates the present turmoil in cancer treatment.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by hellene on Wed Dec 03, 2014 09:15 PM                   Quote | Reply

It is simple to formulate 3-bromopyruvate but it needs to be used right after preparation because it is unstable. It needs to be fresh. It needs to be pH adjusted. It needs to be sterilized. There are aerosolizers for human use.

If one makes the PBS, pH adjusted solution, there is no reason why it cannot be used in exposed cavities. The difficulty related to its administration is that the small concentration that is active on cancer cells will be detoxified in the circulation and the drug will not reach the cancer.

In IV it kills blod Cancers.

There are peritoneal injections that can be used for peritoneal tumors.

If it hits the heart or the brain at concentrations that kill tumors, it might do damage because there is glycolysis going on there.

There are tumor that are resistant to 3-bromopyruvate and there are simple drugs that can be co-administered to overcome the resistance.

One of the reasons why it 3-brmopyruvate is not available as a drug for human consumption is that drugs for human consumption need to be produced in a cGMP approved facility.

It is scary to read about using combinations of active drugs as metformin and chloroquine freely without physician supervision.

It is actually a nightmare to do any drug administration without physician supervision because non-physicians do not have the ability to treat any complications.

A website on 3-bromopyruvate and other science-based therepies in progress will launch tomorrow: www.cancercurescience.com

The website wants to develop in the model of the Musella Foundation's virtualtrials.com

There is a facebook group for 3-bromopyruvate: wehaveacure

and a Wordpress website: wehaveacure

Prescience labs has patents from Johns Hopkins, Dr Ko has patents with Johns Hopkins and maybe by herself. Researchers doing work at a University are at the mercy of the University's goodwill for the use of their work. If it was done at the University the University can release or withhold rights for the use of work's results and patents.

The reason why 3-bromopyruvate has not taken off is the immediate creation of conflicts. The parties involved saw Nobel prize in the stars and are still dealing with litigation. Dr Pedersen and Ko have lost all their funding - that is no reflection on the quality of their Science.

Presceince labs got a grant and FDA approval for a clinical trial.

Other researchers are writing papers for various Cell Press journals and Science, in which the principles of Dr Ko's and Dr Pedersen's work are being proven right. Many of these papers inadvertntly conclude that they can now develop their own drugs based on the same principles. None of these drugs they hope to develop have been proven to have the effects of 3-bromopyruvate.

The discovery of DCA came after the discovery of 3-bromopyruvate and exlpoited the principles that the research on 3-bromopyruvate had displayed true. DCA is a drug that was being used for human consumption and if proven effective it could be prescribed off label. DCA is not 3-bromopyruvate. It is not effective in eradicating all tumors and all cancer cells as 3-bromopyruvate and it has side-effects on the nervous system.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skittles537 on Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

Does it help leiomyosarcomas? My mom has a very large tumor in her breast and her chemo isn't helping to shonk it and it's doubled in size in a month.

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Page 6

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skittles537 on Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:32 PM                   Quote | Reply

Would it help a leiomyosarcoma? My mom has one in her breast.. Chemo hasn't helped and it's doubled in size in the last month. What all is involved for the trial?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by hollomankevin on Thu Dec 04, 2014 03:23 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yes it does help.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skittles537 on Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:32 AM                   Quote | Reply

Does it kill the cancer cells and help tumors shrink or just stop them from growing?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Great post!

Would like to know what the concurrent drugs you would recommend with 3bp to overcome resistance.

Also would like to point out that 3bp is currently being made by a cGMP facility but no, it is not readily available. It really does need to be used in a clinical situation as it is so reactive. The Chinese and American labs are offering 3bp which is not to be used clinically.

Congratulations on your your work to develope and run the websites! Looking forward to seeing what developes!!!

Dr Dickens

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

3bp is cytotoxic meaning it kills cancer cells. It utilizes the metabolism which is unique to cancer cells to gain access to the interior of the cell and then stop the cancer cell's metabolic process.

Dr Dickens

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Dec 04, 2014 03:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

Indeed, that is a very interesting point to discuss: should we expect resistence and if yes what could be the cause for that. Than we can think of drugs that may help to overcome that?

So what could be the reasons for resistence?

I can imagine that one challenge is to reach the tumor location with enough high dose. In that case you may want to coat 3BP with Chitosan to deliver 3BP only to highly acidic environments, i.e. tumor location? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18465306

Than there may be limited accees to the tumor. To increase tumor perfusion you may want to use elements such as nitroglycerin: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01210378

Than you may want to increase the sensitivity of cancer cells to 3BP. I can imagine that one way of increasing their sensitivity is by reducing glucose (by e.g. restricted ketogenic diet) and reducing glutamine (by e.g. phenyl butyrate). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22932475

Use Butyrate pretreatment that may activate MCT expression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22350013

An extreme case could also be that you want to increaes the amount of transporters MCT by actualy increasing the glucose intake?

Maybe add authophagy inhibitors such as chloroquine?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Dec 04, 2014 03:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Reference for the last (i.e. Chloroquine) http://www.impactjournals.com/Genes&Cancer/files/papers/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

One more to potentially reduce resistance is a glutathione depletor, Paracetamol. See here a very recent case report combining 3-BP and Paracetamol with good results: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by daiana on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hello

I am new in your blog,I have ovarian cancer stage 3c ,surgery and chimioterapie this year.I would like to try the 3 Bp  therapy ;can you pleased send me by mail the provider ?

Thank  you kindly

Daiana

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 01:40 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dayspring Cancer Clinic in Scottsdale AZ is making it available on an individual basis. This is an outpatient clinic.

www.dayspringcancerclinic.com

All the best to you!

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Page 7

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by daiana on Mon Dec 15, 2014 02:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am from Belgium,do you know a clinic in Europe?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Dec 15, 2014 03:40 PM                   Quote | Reply

No, sorry.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by daiana on Mon Dec 15, 2014 03:53 PM                   Quote | Reply

Anyone get treatement  with glycobloc?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by JacquesP on Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:23 AM                   Quote | Reply

3-BP will help because it potentiates tremendously any treatment by chemotherapy. If taken alone, it has little effect on chemoresistant tumors, but with chemotherapy it works very well. You do not need to inject it since oral treatment works on me. I use it in oral treatment at 150 mg per day in a glass of water and it is very efficient on my prostate cancer that I monitor with PSA assay. The salt is strongly acidic and it could be bad for the stomach, so before drinking, it is advisable after dissolving in water to neutralize the solution with sodium bicarbonate to pH 3 (you can check with pH-sensitive sticks). This way you can prepare enough solution for a week and keep it at 4°C.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by JacquesP on Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:35 AM                   Quote | Reply

In order to avoid any problem linked to the IV injection and the purity of yje product, 3-BP can be taken orally. It works perfectly on my prostate cancer. 150 mg per day dissolved in a glass of water is fine. The only problem is that 3-BP is highly acidic and before drinking it is advisable to neutralize at least to pH 3 with sodium bicarbonate.

3-BP alone will not kill chemoresistant cancer cells. You need to take a concurrent drug but you can also take 3 g/ day of paracetamol that depletes the cancer cells in antioxidants responsible fro the chemoresistance (El Sayed et al, Chinese Journal of Cancer 2014, vol 33, pp. 356-364). However, such a daily amount of paracetamol may induce high blood presssure that must be also treated.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Jan 05, 2015 06:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

JacquesP: It would help to know a little about you. What is your medical training or experience with other people in using 3bp? Are you a chemist? More experience and training is great in trying to help other people. This is a complex subject where slight nuances are critical so knowing your background would help.

3bp is effective against cancer stem cells. In fact it is effective against all aerobic glycolytic cancers (that is 95% of all cancers).

There is a huge difference in using a Chinese chemical supply source of 3 bp orally and as an IV. 3bp is inherently unstable so how did you test your 3bp to know it was still reactive after a week?

3 g of acetaminophen daily is potentially very hard on the liver in someone in a compromised condition without running labs.

I am thankful you are looking to help people and would like to see more accurate information presented. Please keep up in trying to help people.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 06, 2015 04:52 AM                   Quote | Reply

Indeed, the information provided by JacquesP is very valuable!

Regarding Paracetamol administration, do we really need to go with 3g/day? Do we really need to deplete Glutathione, or lowering the Glutathione level is also enough?

Alternatively, we could also administrate Paracetamol at high levels (i.e. 3g/day) before the 3BP treatment day and a few hours later after 3BP administration give oral and/or IV antioxidants such as Glutathione, NAC, Alfa Lipoic Acid.

However, I think that making 3BP too effective may also be dangerous in some cases due to the Tumor Lysis Syndrome. So probably, for large tumors it is better to go with the first option (i.e. not total depletion of Glutathione) while for smaller tumors the second option may work?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 01:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

What is valuable is knowing the facts of why certain statements are made. The landmark study of Begley and Ellis in Nature of March 2012 showed that 89% (not a typo) of cancer research is not replicable. The danger is in assuming that statements made are accurate and have a scientific basis. If we assume statements are accurate, such as 3bp being stable for a week at 4 degrees (Celsius? Fahrenheit?), when these are not accurate then there is an inherent danger.

I would like to know what the testing was to confirm that 3bp is stable for a week at 4 degrees.

I applaud people wanting to help and promote ideas. This is magnificent stance however in science there is a give and take in challenges and retesting. Nothing mean-spirited about this but serious inquiry.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 06, 2015 06:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

To my understanding JacquesP was refering to the following recent (2014) publication: The antitumor agent 3-bromopyruvate has a short half-life at physiological conditions http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25152397

According to this the stability of 3BP can indeed reach a week at 4 degrees (Celsius) when the pH is adjusted to about 3 using sodium bicarbonate. As a result the statements made by JacquesP are correct. In addition his personal experience with the same, and the positive impact on the reated tumor markers makes this statement even stronger, I think.

According to Jean-Francois Geschwind patent, pH of 4 adjusted also with sodium bicarbonate seems the most effective for oral administration: https://www.google.com/patents/US20100137434?dq=ininventor:%22Jean-Francois+Geschwind%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RSaLVP2uA8aAUZ7JgogM&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCA

However, I belive Dr. Ko has much more knowledge on this subject than Jean-Francois Geschwind and probably has an even better formulation for oral administration, but information such as that shared here by JacquesP is extremly valuable for those of us who can not access formulated 3BP and can save lifes.

I am wondering if this 3BP solution would also be suitable for nebulizer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Jan 09, 2015 02:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

have been treating myself with a nebulizer since begining of sept.  first i am not any kind of expert, just a guy trying to survive. been doing a gram a day since the  begining of oct. the nebulizer works guite well, have had no issues from doing so. best of all marker #'s have been going down. as for the instapility of 3bp, i  was mixing up the acid ,(case# 1113-59-3), in small batches of say 50ml and was keeping it in the fridge, then mixing my morning dose and found myself having to realkilize to get the ph back in line. lesson #1 the acid/alkiline ph changes  with temp so as the mixed product warmed to room temp i had to adjust

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Page 8

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Jan 09, 2015 03:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Howard,

This is great information! Could you please share with us more about you treatment?

What is you diagnostic, tumor markers? How big the decline of the markers was and during what time frame? Do you really take 1g/day? How do you prepare the solution? Do you take all at once or you nebulize multiple times/day?. What is the pH that you use for the solution? Where do you get your 3BP?

Thanks a lot for your contribution!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Jan 09, 2015 08:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

was diagnosed with bile glandular, basickly liver cancer just lower, has same tumeor marker as liver cancer ( ch19-9). markers started to increase 6 months after first round of chemo. 5weeks of radiation an chemo. markers climed to 450, them 1450 then 1950. i had just recieved the 3bp about the third week of radiation and was trying to figure out ....everything. started with  injesting 1/4  was informed that this was probably the best way to test a totaly unknown, as your body has a better filter system at the gut level ,as it were. as i said #s were 450  3 weeks after radiation, i had  been dosing myself at a 1/4 a day till that point. starting the second week of october i increased  the dosage to 1 gram a day. #s hit 1950 mid to late dec. then started back down  1550 then 550  the last ones 3 weeks ago 205. will get another reading in two weeks. to be totally fair, when #'s jumped after radiation i added canibis oil to my projram and the doctors are giving me chisplatin. all these things are part of the current  mix. the solution- chem 100001. i mix 3 bromopyruvic acid (case # 1113-59-3) in small amounts 50ml at a time, store at room temp and alklize just before use. i use food grade sodium hydroxide to akalize and liptmus paper to adjust. they make paper that runs from low 6 ph to  8 ph i try to get to what i would call a soft 8 then nebulize. the mix.... the acid i mix  in a 3 mole solution,  for all of us maldroits, ... a 1mole solution is the molecular weight of one million molecules in a one leter vessel of distilled water. to be clear ,3bp ( molecular weight of 166.95xxx, call it 167 grams ) in the jar then add water up to the one liter mark. this is a one mole solution. so if you want to  make 100 ml of mix you would take 1/10 of 167 = 16.7 and add water to the 100ml mark. i went  to a 3 mole solution for expediency. believe  it or not it takes time to inhale the product, so heres the logic. a 3 mole solution of 100 ml would be 3 x 16.7= 50.2 ...  call it 50 grams of 3bp to make 100ml or 1/2 of that to make 50ml of acid mix. what it works  out to is 2ml = 1 gram of 3bp acid. this is the mix that needs to be akalized. to alkalize .... i mix a 4 mole and a 2 mole solution of sodium hydroxide. (ps the molecular weight of sodium hydroxide  39.9 call it 40)   you will have to figure out how many drops it takes to the akalinity you desire, the reason for  the two different mole solutions is once you get it to proper aklinity it won't thke much to bring it back around. it seems that once alkalized that it  hold for 15 to 20 min. that is why i go to a soft 8ph it will slowley colapse back to a mild acid. 3bp is a strong acid, what this means is that it will desolve in water very well not that it will burn the skin if you get it on you wash it off. i  do this once a day in the morning. if you wish to increse dose ,with this mix 1ml =1/2gram. the 3bp i got from china it was supposed to be 98% pure  turned out to be 95% it was a little muddy when mixed so filtered it through what  we call wipealls  here at the shop but it's  just a good lint free paper. some of this may sound a bit wierd but this whole journey has compressed into the last 4 months. like i said i am no expert, just trying to figure this thing out. feel free to point out any mistakes that i might  have made

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:39 AM                   Quote | Reply

Anyone tried microencapsulation of 3-Bromopyruvate?

( from an article in Clinical Cancer Research December 2014)

A few more amps up (like Paracetamol and microcapsulation)

and 3-BRP will be impressive.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 06:35 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Howard,

Thanks so much for the details and CONGRATULATION for the great results you have! Following the details, I do have some comments and some questions.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 06:40 AM                   Quote | Reply

The comments are:

Based on the very valuable info received earlier from JacquesP, 3BP can indeed be stable at 4C for about a week, when at relatively low pH. I have read the suggested paper and it seems that in contrast to that, when 3BP is mixed into a solution resulting a pH such as 8 and stored at high temperatures such as room temperature, the stability is very very low so that the 3BP decays very fast, i.e. becomes 12.5% in about 80min when stored at a temperature of 37C. Another example: 3BP at pH3 stored at 4C shows no detectable decay over 2 months, while 3BP at pH3 stored at room temperature (18C) had a half life of 29 hours. If the pH is increased to 7-8 than that half life becomes even smaller. On this line I would not suggest to prepare all at once and store at room temperature. Instead I would prepare 3BP every time before administration (also make sure that the 3BP crystals you have are stored at low temperature and not exposed to light). Alternatively, you can prepare 3BP for multiple administrations as JacquesP suggests but than you need to first prepare at pH3 for storage and every time before administration adjust pH to the required one for inhalation.

Having this in mind, I assume that the 1g 3BP you administrate every day is actually much much less due to the decay. As a result, if you start to follow the storage of 3BP as discussed above, I  expect the concentration of administrated 3BP will be much higher than you used before. So you may have to start with lower doses again!?

This is just my opinion/understanding. I hope others will comment and add on this if there is a mistake here.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Jan 11, 2015 06:41 AM                   Quote | Reply

The questions are:

How do you know that 3-BP you ordered from China is indeed 3-BP and the purity is 95 and not higher or lower? To my understanding the CAS # is the right one. What is the colour of your 3BP? Why did you choose sodium hydroxide and not sodium bicarbonate to increase pH? What is the source and what is the price? Maybe others would like to order as well. Are there any side effects following 3BP administration? Have you ever tried to improve the effectiveness of 3BP with Paracetamol administration? How much cannabis oil do you take and how often?

Note: if you know somebody at an University or a Chemical company, he/she can also order 3BP for you from companies such as Sigma Aldrich, Santa Cruz, etc.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Jan 11, 2015 03:18 PM                   Quote | Reply

in response to the stabality for  a week at 4c degrees. i believe that we are say ing the same thing. i mix 3bp acid which seems to store at room temp ,why would acid spoil, and alkalize every morning before use. i will check the akalinity every 5 or 10 min and adjust if needed. have found that it stays in a range for 15 to 30 min. i know that i am not getting a full gram of product, you can't inhale all of those little molicules, some get away. everything i read said 3bromopyruvate  (alkaine not 3bromopyruvic acid ) was what worked...... ie. a ph of 3 is very acidic, so the research says the acid stores and the alkilne will colapse, but can be stabilized with the addition of other things which is very important if it is delivered in  IV form. since i am inhaling with a nebulizer,  there is no time lag,and a  direct line to the  blood system and am not subjecting the product  to the  stomach acid inviroment. what i know is that i  am not inhaling acid and am keeping the ph between 8 plus and 7.2 which is what i've read it is supposed to be  . while this may not be the best way to handle the product. i believe it is about as practical and as efficient as one can get at a household  level . so do i belive that i am taking a gram of product absolutly. would i back up and start with a smaller dose ... no. i guess the statement i was making the first time, in responcse to has anyone done this, is yes i have , and one gram won't kill you, i think. lets face it we are very much pilgrims wondering in the dark, so if some small form of information here helps with the practical application of this product great.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Jan 11, 2015 03:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

how does anybody know, you have have some faith in people. the purity was supposed to be 98 but  changed  at the last monent. the case # is for 3bp acid. i used  sodium hydroxide  because that is what the research i read said was  used. the sorce is china because you don't  need to know somebody that could get in a bind for suppling you. check a sight called molbase ,it is a chemical directory. no i did not add anything to extend the stability. as for the oil i take 1/2 gram in the morning an 1/2 gram at night.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 13, 2015 02:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thank for your response, Howard!

I was wondering, where did you red about the ph that has to be between 8 plus and 7.2? Was in the article where they used nebulized version on animals? Btw, I think they also used DMSO.

Here is a quote: "Powdered 3-BrPA was dissolved in a 20% DMSO:EtOH solution to give 3-BrPA concentration 2 and 10 mg/mL. The solution was freshly prepared every day. Solution formulations were atomized into droplets by atomizer. Aerosol flow was then passed through 2 scrubbers with activated carbon to remove ethanol and DMSO. The resulting dry aerosol flow with only desired chemicals was then introduced into the nose-only exposure chamber from the top inlet. Effluent aerosol was discharged from an opening at the bottom of the chamber. This formulation was administered once a day 5 times a week. Vehicle controls were exposed to 20% DMSO:EtOH solution. All formulations were prepared immediately before dosing. All group were treated for 8 minutes and continued for 20 weeks" http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/5/5/717.full.pdf+html

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 13, 2015 03:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

Just a small summary to our discussion - So far the following are the treatment alternatives we see with 3-BP:

1. Formulate 3-BP at a clinic in US, i.e. Dayspring

2. Unformulated 3-BP:

- IV administration: A cancer patient has been treated at a hospital in Egypt. When conbined with Paracetamol, the 3BP became very effective. The dose used was from 1mg/kg up to withouth toxicity 2.2mg/kg:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/

- Oral administration: Earier in this discussion, Jacques (a scientiest from a related field) shared with us his experience on formulation (using NaBic) and oral administration. Combining 150mg/day (i.e. about 2mg/kg) 3-BP at suitable pH and Paracetamol, he succeded to lower his PSA levels (to my understanding this has been delivered toghether with chemo - chemo alone leading to strong increase in PSA)

- Inhalation via a nebulizer: Howard received 1g 3BP/day via nebulizer, at a relatively high pH, between 7.2 and 8. With thsi he succeded to strongly lower his tumor markers (again, to my understanding this was in combination with chemo and cannabis oil)

- In addition to the above, I aso know sombody who after a single dose of IV unformulated 3-BP at 0.5mg/kg could reduce her cancer related pain by 90%, imidiatly after the IV.

Note: Antioxidants are antagonists of 3-BP. I would not take anti-oxidants during the day before or during the 3-BP administration. Instead, they may be suitable some hours from 3-BP administration in order to protect the other organs.

Any additions/changes to this summary are very welcomed!

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Page 9

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Jan 13, 2015 08:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

danielius the reason that i alkalize to a ph of 8 is because 3bp (alkilne) is not stable and the ph will slowly drop towards an acidic state. as for mixing the acid as a batch and keeping at room temp. i believe that it is stable in this form because it takes the same amount of alkilne to bring it into range every morning. once again what i have read is the alkiline form of 3bp is what we want not the acid. yes you can purchase ethyl 3bp which is supposed to be  run through an activated charcol filter, tends to make me  believe that ethyl might not be good for you. jacques may be only doing 150 mg/day but that number seems way light. 150mg =aprox 1/8 gram, if you devide the roughly 167 grams (molecular weight of 3bp) into the 1 million molecules to get  this weight, it comes to about  6000 molecules = 1 gram, 6000 molecules dosen't sound like a lot in a body that changes about a billion cells a day. 1000 mg(milligrams) =  1 gram. also the dosage that was stated (for the rats) ,was 10ml/kg of body weight when taken by IV ,injection,inhaled but was 20mg/kg of body weight when eaten.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Jan 14, 2015 05:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Howard, beyond what we think it makes sense, there is a number of scientific publications including several patent applications around 3-BP as a anti-cancer component. All of these suggest a IV typical dose between 1mg and 2.5mg/kg as beeing effective. I guess oral administration and nebulizing may go somewhat higher. That is what I would consider safe based on all the reports. If I would start now, I would start with that range and than slowly go up if needed but would certainly not go directly to 1g/day. :)  Nevertheless, your experience is a reference point for us and very valauble. Kind regards.

Btw, maybe a good idea is to try deliver 3BP via topical application with the help of DMOS?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Jan 14, 2015 05:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

Ho Jcancom. How would you do the microencapsulation? Do you have any idea?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Thu Jan 15, 2015 01:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

The above mentioned publication (2014 Systemic delivery of microencapsulated 3-bromopyruvate for the therapy of pancreatic cancer) states:

-

"Encapsulation of 3-BrPA in β-CD was achieved by portionwise addition of 3-BrPA (166 mg, 1mM) to a stirring solution of β-CD (1836 mg in 30 ml DI water). The resulting solution was sonicated for 1 h at room temperature and then shaken overnight at 25°C, flash frozen and lyophilized. Encapsulation was confirmed by 1H NMR experiments performed  at 400 MHz on a Bruker Avance spectrometer."

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Thu Jan 15, 2015 07:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

danielus  i still  believe that we are on  the same track, the point is that your points are not in the right place .   1mg= 1/1000 of a gram. this dosage won't do much good if you want to do damage to your cancer. the 16 year old that was cured in 2002 ingermany recieved 1,2&3 grams in IV  form over a three month period. he survived. i read  that  Ko thought that you couldn't get a toxic dose of 3bp ,and it  didn't cause any phyisical problems when used. i am here to say that as far as i can tell these statments are correct. would not  give increasing the dosage much of a second thought. that said   safty is always the best play, if you have unlimited time. unfortunatly time gets somewhat compressed  when someone says those famous words "you have 6 to  12 months more or less". this can be very frustrating when you realize just how many mountains of information on cancer there are and nobody  giving  any direction. also knowing in the back of your mind that if you  pick or chose wrong you may not get a second chance. i have been following 3bp for about 10 months, when i started crusing the internet back then it was patent  info and research papers, but there was not anybody offering to use this product. a year brings a lot of changes, 2 months ago was  the doctor with a clinic in columbia  who treated a guy with brain cancer  and supposedly put him in remission and  now day spring cancer clinic in scottsdale arizona . both clinics want some long green to do  the deed on you. 14,000 per month for the econo version in az. and 30,000 for 21 treatments over 42 days in bogota. while it is comforting to know that 3bp is being offered which will give us more data no weather or not 3bp works. wouldn't it be nice to know that one  could get the product , self administer and cure ,with out bankrupting your family. went back over my notes, ( it is important to keep complete notes one  what yov'e done), i started doing 3bp 8-19-2014. mixed acid, alkilized and ate 1/4 gram. if you alkilize to much it may give you some indegestion. if this happens  eat something acidic like pepsi or coffee .i did this for a few days then went to trying to inhale. started with a my pure mist, waist  of time and money don't go down this rabit hole. bought a real nebulizer about $50 bucks on line. inhaled 1/4 gram till 10-7-14 till i got  marker #s that wern't good (panic time). at this point shifted to a 1 gram dose. have been doing this since .i've started taking sundays off just because #s  looking better need a little break. my  count is 118 grams since 10-7. no issues. should have another marker in a couple of weeks. at this point i have  about three  weeks of product .will finish  get more  increase dose and keep on going

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Jan 15, 2015 07:40 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Howard, I agree with most of your views. Trust me, I very much understand what time means in this context. The only comments I have are related to the treatment in Germany with 3BP. I am not sure if we are speaking about the same, but the Dutch boy was treated in Germany in 2009, using much less 3-BP than a few grams as you indicate. For clarity, here are a few quotes from the publication:

1. "The patient was treated immediately via TACE with specially formulated 3BP (patented and proprietary) twice on the first day of treatment (February 26, 2009), a total dose 250 mg."

2. "A second treatment was scheduled 2 weeks after the first, the third after 4 weeks. After the second application (128 mg), which went without any acute problems, the patient started to get disturbed"

Reference: J Bioenerg Biomembr (2012) 44:163–170

I added this info to make sure that we are correctly informed.

Next, I am not aware about the treatment in Columbia. Could you please share the link to that, here? Thank you.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Jan 16, 2015 08:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

danielus i stand corrected i was  thinking of the same lad in germany. had to go back over my notes, must have been overlaping that paper on the boy with the rat fomula. i.e. when eaten 20mg per kilo of  body weight or  10mg per kilo of body weight when in IV or other such methods. since i weight 225 ,this works out to roughly 1 gram. thinking about it this fomula is really the one to use because it fits everyone. i do not remember seeing the weight of the boy anywhere. so if he had lost a lot of weight or only was  a hundred lbs. to start this would have an effect on the ratios. the boy in germany i believe had his problems because the cancer was large, mine isn't  large just very aggresive. so not a lot of tumor shrinkage to deal with. since i went back over my notes here is some of the numbers from my usage. 8-19 start ate 1/4 gram for several days as a test run. had some indigestion mostly from akilinity, i believe, continued with 1/4  dose a day trying different methods to treat myself. there was  a study in new zealand that showed some toxic buildup in the liver when eaten and i am not fond of needles so breath in the air. nebulized 1/4 gram  daily untill 10-6. this as i count was approx 10 grams total. fun starts my numbers jump to 450 from the 125 that they were. this is just after they finished with the second round of chemo and radiation, this told me  that nothing i was doing was working. since i wasn't dealing with any problems i started with a 1 gram aday regiment. so from 10-6 untill this morning i have  been doing 1 gram a day . i counted 118 days in that time period (this  is counting a few missed  days). so have consumed 128 grams more or less over a 5 month period with on detectable issues. have mixed 8 batches of acid, akilized and nebulized about 150 times. this process takes about 1 hour more or less to do. once again am not an expert just somewhat practiced. to find the columbian deal try (3bromopyruvate cancer bogota columbia).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Jan 17, 2015 04:05 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, I think you touch a very important point which I think is important to state here, i.e. when using 3BP you need to take care since large tumors may lead to TLS and people may go away just because the organs can not manage the large amount of death cancer cells. So they need to start with low doses even if the time is short. (Again, do not forget that Paracetamol can increase the effectivness of 3-BP.) On the other hand, when the tumors are small you can probably start with larger doses (and your case is a very good example of that).

Yes, I was very curios and searched for the case in Colombia. Here is the link for those who do not have time to search for it: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cancer-treatment-ins

I like a lot this exampe because it combines two great anti-cancer components in a very effective manner: 3BP and Salinomycin.

Here is more explained and exaple of humans treated with Salinomycin alone: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2012/950658/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Thu Jan 22, 2015 05:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

hey danielus wanted to get the next marker before i responded. went down from 205 to 178. while down is good  it seems at least right now that the curve is flatening out. not as good as i would have liked but it is what it is. am continuing on with the 3bp but am adding it to my baking soda and molasses (cancer tutor cheep cures) and doing orally for awhile. am also on the hunt for salinomycin  to add to the mix. will post as i learn more.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Jan 22, 2015 05:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, thanks for the update!

The dirrection is stil good and that is what is important! Have you considered adding oral and topicla 3BP? Again, Paracetamol will help the efectivness of 3BP - I will keep reminding this.

Salinomycin sound very interesting indeed! I hope you are aware about the very low dose that shoudl be taken. IV dose used in Germany when treating cancer in humans was 0.2mg/kg. It is dificult to find the high concentration in China - you will usualy get the mix with a concentration of 12%-24%. I think is not water soluble so you will need to first solve it in ethanole.

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Page 10

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:26 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning danielus. will look at paracetamol. will be ordering more 3bp, just about out. as to the oral end of life, i've started adding the one gram of 3bp to my baking soda and molasses. it's a lot quicker to swallow than snif. my plan know is to add salinmycin to this mix of baking soda molasses, 3bp. the intension at this time is to mix the salinomycin with dmso since it is not very soluable in water. i have read that it can be (dmso) taken internally without to much of an issue. as with  before i have had no problems or side effects with the 3bp when injested with baking soda and  molasses. once more into the breach will keep you posted.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:53 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, just take care with Salinomycin. I also like a lot its potential but it is easy to go beyon its safe dose. Here is a case so that you get an idea on what that means: "A case of an accidental inhalation and swallowing of about 1mg·kg−1salinomycin by a 35-year-old male human revealed severe acute and chronic salinomycin toxicity with acute nausea, photophobia, leg weakness, tachycardia and blood pressure elevation and a chronic (day 2 to day 35) creatine kinase  elevation, myoglobinuria, limb weakness, muscle pain, and mild rhabdomyolysis"  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3516046/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Jan 23, 2015 06:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

btw, there is no issue with taking DMSO oral. The only issue is its taste and your smell after that. Otherwise, it is actually even good. Here in Europe people are taking that IV (10ml one time).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Jan 23, 2015 06:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

btw, there is no issue with taking DMSO oral. The only issue is its taste and your smell after that. Otherwise, it is actually even good. Here in Europe people are taking that IV (10ml one time). Also you have to know that DMSO may increase the effectivness of the others so you may want to take that into account.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Jan 23, 2015 09:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

When will 3-BP break through to mass acceptance?

The first published report listed on pubmed for 3-Bromopyruvate and cancer was in 2001. After all these years there are only 2 published human reports!? In both instances the patients had monumentally extreme anti-tumour responses.

Why has this treatment not been offered to patients with extreme cancer burdens on a compassionate basis? How could giving these patients medications that have been shown definitively not to be helpful to them considered ethical?

Further, it would be useful for reporting of the therapeutic outcomes for such patients to be made a legal requirement. If 3-BP were to be as effective as reported in the patient reports, then it would not take long before a 3-BP breakthrough would be announced and broadly ccepted.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Jan 24, 2015 06:24 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Jcancom, don't forget that the world we live in today is first driven by financial reasons. These are the reasons that lead to wars, etc. that are a reality of today. Today, every large company has employees specifically allocated to perform lobby and make sure the regulations are in line with their (financial) needs. In this context, I do not expect a general acceptance of anti-cancer solutions such as 3BP or Salinomycin on short term. Or in other words, I do not expect a top-down acceptance. Instead, I expect that the process will be bottom-up, starting with discussions on Cancer Compass or similar as we are having here, and with awareness more and more patients will adopt this (either going to specialized clinics such as Dayspring or administrated themselves at home). And this takes time, I think. Fortunately, we have the internet that will accelerate the process   :)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sat Jan 24, 2015 09:21 AM                   Quote | Reply

good morning to the both of you. jancom i believe wnat danielus said is correct. forget the ones who are the most self serving. the question is what will you do that is within your power to try and correct it. it is sad ...that the facts are not being brought forth faster. especialy considering the lack of side effects. this is precisley why i wanted to tell what i was doing and how. hopefully that information gives someone else a little hope that there  is a chance of curing this nasty little parisite. danielus thanks for the heads-up on the salinomycin formula for dosage. i intend to start small and work up. remember every one is some what self serving, the doctor from day spring that basicly only said i'm over here and doing it. will get some bussines from those people with cancer and money, but the results that come from each patient gives more and more answers to the questions. logicly we all know that we are not the center of the universe .... but it is the only point of view  that we have. keep those cards and letters coming and one day we will win.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sat Jan 24, 2015 09:24 AM                   Quote | Reply

ps. there are apparently 2 other  clinic s on the east coast that are doing 3bp. also remember that the more clinics that offer the treatment the lower the cost will go .... down to the cost a pill perhaps.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Jan 24, 2015 01:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

It is difficult for me to accept the conspiracy view on 3-Bromopyruvate. Preventing severely ill people from receiving an effective treatment is indicative of low intelligence and severe mental illness. Doctors are not selected on the basis of those characteristics. Further, genetic technology has been developed which can analyze a DNA sample for qualities such as intelligence and mental illness with (or without) a person's consent (or knowledge). One would expect that such genetic testing is already being conducted in the selection of future doctors, as the financial liability for not doing so for employers and others would be substantial. The era in which medical professionals could plausibly behave in a manner counter to the interests of their patients is rapidly ending. It is easy to predict that individuals who disregard the welfare of others will become increasingly marginalized in this new era of genetic awareness.

Additionally, it is not inconceivable that criminal conspiracy charges could be applied to those people who, in a position of authority, did not behave in the best interests of the community. Publically disclosed letters urging community leaders to move forward with 3-Bromopyruvate as a cancer treatment have been reported. If I were such an individual receiving a registered, publically known communication concerning 3BP, I would feel morally obligated to investigate and, if I deemed it appropriate, advance 3BP into further investigation. Having the mental ability to consider the moral and legal consequences of one's actions is one definition of intelligence.

Those are considerations from the top down. Fortunately, the internet has given new power to those solving problems from the bottom up. I find it truly awe inspiring that I can post onto a forum such as this and directly contact those people dealing with cancer. I am honored and I feel it a great privildege. I also feel a great responsibility for the comments that I post.

I am still very surprised by the extremely slow uptake of 3-Bromopyruvate. A clinical trial has still not started! It is almost 2 years after FDA authorization was granted. If there were even a handful more patient reports simialr to already published of dramatic response to 3BP, there could be a rapid uptake into the clinical setting.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

Has anyone noticed what is happening with US Right to Try Laws? 5 states approved Right to Try in 2014. 19 additional states intend to move forward these laws in 2015.

https://www.facebook.com/RightToTryNationwide

Five states have Right to Die legislation. It does not seem logically consistent that states would give citizens the choice to die but not try.

Right to Try Laws appear set to go nationwide this year. Perhaps federal legislation could be introduced. This is a huge political win for patient advocacy groups.

This could add substantial momentum to 3-BP. By centralizing pharmaceutical regulation everyone was stuck in a rigidly inflexible environment where innovation and risk became impossible.

What terminal cancer patient would not consider trying 3BP given the reported results noted on this thread? It will not take many more reports of near cures by 3-BP to move this into the mainstream.

This could happen quickly now. The life expectancy of the teenager patient with liver cancer would likely have been only a few months if he had not been treated with 3BP. When similar reports surface for other end stage cancer patients, 3-BP could become a final treatment option for cancer when all other treatments have proven futile.

Hopefully, Right to Try Legislation will be combined with Duty to Report Legislation. If patient results are not reported, then there will be no way for people to know what treatments could help them.

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Page 11

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Jan 26, 2015 02:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, indeed I am sure there are more clinic around the world offering 3BP quitly, indeed.

Regarding the minicells, our challenge here is to be able to apply the good ideas such as the minicells, and if possible at home  :). So, if you think it is easy to prepare minicells, could you please share that with us in detail?

Than the next challenge will be to send them to the cancer cells. A genetic profile (about $2000 at RGCC) will than help us to know what are the overexpressions we like to target. Typically EGFR? So if you knwo how to coat them with EGFR antibodies it woud be great.

Chitosan is also a great way to deliver drugs to acidic environments but I guess that doesnt work with 3BP ...

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Jan 26, 2015 05:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear All, I just realized one point: I was looking at Phenlybutyrate which may be good addition to the 3BP treatment due to its anti-glutamine mechanism. But this is very expensive. And than realized that Metformin, a low cost anti diabetic drug well known for its anti-cancer effects, may be a very good addition to the 3BP treatment. The reason for this is that Metformin blocks the mithocondrial ATP production making the cancer cell more susceptible to glycosis inhibitors such as 3BP. As a bonus, it leads to an increase of glycosis which in turn would upregulated MCT transporters that are required for 3BP to enter the cells. In conclusion, Metformin is a good addition to 3BP treatment.

Note: treatment with anti-angiogenesis elements (such as Thalidomide) would also lead to an increase in glycosis and thus increase susceptibility to 3BP

Here are some inspiring pictures: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v491/n7424/fig_tab/natu

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Jan 26, 2015 06:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

One more usefull point for those of us in search for an effective 3BP theraphy: Disulfiram is a glutathione inhibitor as well (besides all the other anti-cancer mechanisms). http://www.disulfiram.eu/documents/iiaigc.pdf

This is in the context in which Paracetamol (a glutathione depletor) is increasing the effectivness of 3BP treatment as shown in the recent publication from Egypt.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Jan 26, 2015 07:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Phenformin might be better than metformin

PLoS One. 2014 Jan 21;9(1):e85576. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0085576. eCollection 2014. Synergistic anti-cancer effect of phenformin and oxamate.

With minicells you would not have much to worry about expense. Using 1,000 to 1 million less drug would almost eliminate the drug cost. Spare no expense, buy the finest

cehmotherapeutics! You will only need tiny amounts.

Loading 3BP, paracetamol, phenformin etc into the minicells would also greatly reduce toxicity issues.

Adding an oncolytic virus to a minicell would be especially interesting (if this were possible). the oncolytic viruses would suddenly start replicating all over the body and the immune system would be hard pressed to suppress such replication. Such a strategy might have safey issues, though.

Will be very intereested to see whether you will be able to

take advantage of the minicell idea. Minicells treatment does not appear to pose substantial obstacles. However, minicell treatment did pose some toxicity issues in the phase 1 trial, described as minimal in some reports.

Step 1. Obtain minicells and bispecific antibodies

Someone with access to scientific suppliers probably could pick up the minicells and bispecific antibodies.

Step 2. Load the drug into the minicells

From the articles on minicells, it appears that loading the drugs into the minicells is extremely easy. The drug simply diffuses into the minicells.

[Cell Cycle 6:17, 2099-2105, 1 September 2007]; ©2007 Bacterially-Derived Nanocells for Tumor-Targeted Delivery of Chemotherapeutics and Cell Cycle Inhibitors

"It was demonstrated that a range of chemotherapeutic drugs with differing structure, charge, hydrophobicity and solubility such as doxorubicin, paclitaxel, irinotecan, 5-fluorouracil, cisplatin, carboplatin and vinblastine, could be readily packaged within the minicells.45 Interestingly, the method of drug packaging was as simple as coincubating minicells with each drug for as little as 2 hrs. Hydrophobic drugs required small concentrations of cosolvents in the incubation reaction to ensure that the drug remained in solution during coincubation with minicells. The functional integrity of minicells was not compromised with the use of small concentrations

of solvents like DMSO, Cremophor or ethanol. The solvent was

then easily washed away prior to attaching bispecific antibodies

to drug-packaged minicells. The drug-packaged minicells did not leak drug when incubated in buffer or serum for over 24 hrs.

Drug-packaging in minicells was shown to be dependent on both the concentration of drug in the loading solution, and time ofincubation.45 Drug loading of minicells possibly occurs by diffusion down a concentration gradient ..."

Below article provides more specific details of the minicell loading process.

Cancer Cell Volume 11, Issue 5, 8 May 2007, Pages 431–445 Bacterially Derived 400 nm Particles for Encapsulation and Cancer Cell Targeting of Chemotherapeutics

Step 3. Attaching the bispecific antibodies.

The below quote from a minicell patent suggests that attaching the bispecific antibodies is not difficult. The only unknown is the "suitable medium".

"The bispecific ligand is then bound to the recombinant purified minicells, for example by in vitro incubation in suitable medium, and excess ligand is washed away from the ligand-loaded minicells."

http://www.google.it/patents/US20070237744

Also from the article from Cancer Cell, the quote (below) suggests that merely coating the minicells with the bispecific antibodies is sufficient.

(F) Fluorescent images showing BsAb bound to and coating the surface of drug-packaged minicells. Alexa Fluor 488-conjugated BsAb (green fluorescence) bound to minicellsDoxand imaged to show only the green fluorescence of the BsAb (Fa), or to show both the green fluorescent BsAbs, and the red autofluorescing Dox within the minicell (Fb).In (Fc), minicells packaged with Oregon Green 488-conjugated Fluoro-Pac (green fluorescence) were coated with Alexa Fluor 594-conjugated BsAb (red fluorescence).The intense yellow fluorescence shown is due to the overlay of the red surface (BsAb) and green cytoplasm (Pac). Scale bar, 1 μm.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Jan 26, 2015 08:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

The patent appears to give very specific instructions about attaching the bispecific antibodies. The portion in the quote before "The beads were resuspended ..." could provide the complete methodology

"...The beads were resuspended in 0.5 ml of washing solution containing 0.1M Na-phosphate buffer (pH 5.0). The bead immobilization and washing steps were repeated three times. The solution containing protein A/G-bispecific antibody complex was added to the beads and incubated with gentle mixing at room temperature for 40 min. The tube was placed on the MPC-S stand to immobilize the beads and the protein A/G-bispecific antibody complex was removed with a pipette. This step removed the unbound excess monoclonal antibodies from the solution and provided a solution that carried the bispecific antibody linked to protein A/G via their Fc fragments. 1010 recombinant minicells were incubated with the protein A/G-bispecific antibody for 1 hr at room temperature to coat the minicells with the antibody via its anti-LPS Fab region."

http://www.google.it/patents/US20070237744

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Mon Jan 26, 2015 08:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

hey guys afternoon to you. glad to see the discussion on this topic heat up. the both of you sound very well informed, so my question is do you both have your own labs , because it seems to me that these ideas could only be done in that kind of inviorment. who sells  mini cells, paracetamol, and in the inviroment of the patriot act lets see what questions get raised when you want a cup of oncolytic virus. while  i would bet that these are all valid ideas and am interested to here them,  so please don't get me wrong. but from my center of the universe, ( which is some what time compressed) how can i do this in my garage ?

on a brighter note ....had an inquirey from a doctor in india, looking for info on 3bp and how to handle it. to help the poor that don't have any ability to pay the pharma boys. think this is wonderful news and should bring much more data to the table. keep pushing and soon we will tear the bag off this cat,  for all the world to see.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Jan 26, 2015 09:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

http://www.vaxiion.com/Home_Page.html

They make minicells on an industrial scale, might not sell you any.

http://www.theswisspharmacy.com/product_info.php?info=p9737_

FDA has set a review goal date under the Prescription Drug User Fee Act (PDUFA) of July 28, 2015for Talimogene laherparepvec

Sure the minicells might take some doing. However, when you read through what is involved it seems surprisingly straight forward. Considering the payback it appears well-worth some effort. China might supply some of the ingredients.''' '''

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Tue Jan 27, 2015 09:57 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear horwardA! I would like to visit you and learn how exactly to do it. Is it possible?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:18 AM                   Quote | Reply

felix ... happy to help any way i can. will send my email

howardA

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:49 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you, howardA!

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Page 12

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 27, 2015 04:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom, thank you for the extensive response! I have several questions but I would start with the first two:

1. Do you know anybody selling the minicells? If I would know the source I may be able to order some. I shortly checked and it seems is not that easy.

2. Do you have any idea whether besides IV, other ways of administrtaion are also possible? (For IV delivery I will need a sterile environment to prepare.)

Phenformin may indeed be more effective but it comes with some toxicity.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Jan 27, 2015 04:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, it would be helpful if the doctors such as the indian doctor would also join the discussion and help to grow our knowledge.

Regarding the cup of oncolytic virus, you may be surprised but there are ways you can get that into your garage :D

Anyway, I totay agree: we need to get to the point so that we can prepare the treatments at home. At least this is my goal. And as described by Jcancom things may be easier than we would expect. So lets see if we can get forward with this idea.

Otherwise, how are you? Are you getting now 3BP orally?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Jan 27, 2015 07:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

1.) I am not sure about suppliers. The minicell production community is probably fairly small. Perhaps the best approach would be to contact Engeneic directly. If they were not interested in a  Right to Try route, they might be able to direct you to others who might supply you the minicells.

Pubmed has several articles on how to make minicells.

For example,

J Bacteriol. 1970 Sep;103(3):836-9. Resistance of minicells to penicillin lysis: a method of obtaining large quantities of purified minicells.

Minicells do not appear to require high-technology to manufacture. You might try and contact those behind some of these articles.

I would impress upon them the idea that many American states have instituted Right to Try laws. The spirit of these laws mean that anyone who now interferes with the medical treatment freedom of seriously ill patients, after consultation with their medical advisors, will face the full force of the criminal law system.

2.) The only method of administration that I can find in the published literature is IV. The patent, though, suggests a broad range of possible routes of adminstration:

[from   http://www.pharmcast.com/Patents200/Yr2014/Jul2014/070814/87 ]

"...A composition of the present invention can be administered via various routes and to various sites in a mammalian body, to achieve the therapeutic effect(s) desired, either locally or systemically. Delivery may be accomplished, for example, by oral administration, by application of the formulation to a body cavity, by inhalation or insufflation, or by parenteral, intramuscular, intravenous, intraportal, intrahepatic, peritoneal, subcutaneous, intratumoral, or intradermal administration. The mode and site of administration is dependent on the location of the target cells."

And:

"...When delivering a drug to an engulfing-competent mammalian cell without the use of a targeting ligand, the nature of the application contemplated will influence the choice of bacterial source for the minicells employed. For example, Salmonella, Escherichia and Shigella species carry adhesins that are recognized by endocytosis-mediating receptors on enterocytes in the gastrointestinal tract, and may be suitable to deliver a drug that is effective for colon cancer cells. Similarly, minicells derived from Helicobacter pylori, carrying adhesins specific for stomach epithelial cells, could be suited for delivery aimed at stomach cancer cells. Inhalation or insufflation may be ideal for administering intact minicells derived from a Pseudomonas species that carry adhesins recognized by receptors on lung epithelial cells. Minicells derived from Lactobacilli bacteria, which carry adhesins specific for urinary tract and bladder epithelial cells, could be well-suited for intraurethral delivery of a drug to a urinary tract or a  bladder cancer."

Such routes of adminstration would need to be approached cautiously. Minicell treatment is extraordinarily powerful. It is not clear what side-effects might be encountered using any of the above untested approaches in humans.

At the same time, there could be considerable benefits in terms of safety and efficacy in choosing such alternative modes of drug delivery. Minicells directly injected into a tumor or inhaled could be extremely effective even when used at a nanoscopic dose.

Further:

"The invention further provides methods of loading minicells with a drug. Using these methods, drug packaging can be accomplished for both hydrophilic and hydrophobic drugs. One method of loading minicells with a drug involves creating a concentration gradient of the drug between an extracellular medium containing the minicells and the minicell cytoplasm. When the extracellular medium contains a higher drug concentration than the minicell cytoplasm, the drug naturally moves down  this concentration gradient, into the minicell cytoplasm.When  the concentration gradient is reversed, however, the drug does not move out of the minicells.

That therapeutically significant amounts of drugs can be packaged thusly in non-living minicells without leakage is surprising..."

Minicells do not leak!

And also:

"...To load minicells with drugs that normally are not water soluble, the drugs initially can be dissolved in an appropriate solvent. For example,Paclitaxel can be dissolved in a 1:1 blend of ethanol and cremophore EL(polyethoxylated castor oil), followed by a dilution in PBS  to achieve a solution of Paclitaxel that is partly diluted in aqueous media and carries minimal amounts of the organic solvent to ensure that the drug remains in solution. Minicells can be incubated in this final medium for drug loading. Thus, the inventors discovered that even hydrophobic drugs can diffuse into the cytoplasm of minicells to achieve  a high and therapeutically significant cytoplasmic drug load. This is unexpected because the minicell membrane is composed of a hydrophobic phospholipid bilayer, which would be expected to prevent diffusion of hydrophobic molecules into the cytoplasm."

This seems ridiculously easy. This would be much easier than pH balancing the free 3-BP (and likely much safer and more effective). Minicells move the chemistry prerequisite for 3-BP treatment from college to kitchen. Anyone know where the obscure chemical reagent "ethanol" might be procured?

Loading the minicells appears to require a primitive process. Attaching the bi-specific antibodies might not be much more conceptually difficult. The antibodies have high affinity for their receptor target, it would not likely require much exertion to encourage them to bind

Another consideration would be the choice of drug/drugs to load into the minicells. Minicells seem to greatly reduce the complexity of cancer treatment. Minicells directly deliver the drugs to the cancer cell. If one were to grow a sample of a biopsy of one's tumor, then one could find the perfect combination of drugs at the optimal concentrations to load into the minicells. For example, x amount of 3-BP, y amount of salinomycin, z amount of Paracetamol (acetaminophen) etc. . {Did anyone realize that Paracetamol is actually acetaminophen? I was so impressed by the word paracetamol that I had no idea that this was only Tylenol! I do not even know if a prescription is required for that where I live. I checked our medicine cabinet and sure enough there sat a bottle of it.} The phase 1 clinical trial that has been published for minicells did not have such an adaptive design. The patients appeared to receive one drug if it helped them or not. With the flexibility minicell approach one could use formulations of the drug mix in order to achieve the most effective result.

With minicells, the toxicity of the drugs themselves becomes insignificant. For example, Phenformin at a minicell dose of   1 microgram would likely have undetectable side-effects. The mice studies used drug doses of 500 nanograms! It is not reasonable to believe that drugs used at that order of magnitude inside of minicells would cause relevent medical concerns. The minicells themselves, though, have some issues concerning toxicity.

I was especially impressed by the idea of using a virus. With an oncolytic virus in a minicell, the immune system would never recognize the virus on the first pass. The minicells would dump the virus into cancer cells, the virus would grow in the cancer cells, and then the cells would burst with new virus particles. Then the immune system would have to fight the virus simultaneously all over the body. If an oncolytic virus were simply injected, as is the current route of administration, the immune system might have a better chance to prevent the desired anti-cancer effect.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Jan 27, 2015 08:26 PM                   Quote | Reply

evening to all... sent out some thing must of went private or something ..question for all are  these micro cells inert or something else. in the plastic fiberglass industy we use "micro spheres "  made of glass little teiny tiny balls if tossed into the air are like dust, bad for lungs. a cubic yard weighs about 60 pounds if they are the same thing i have a at least 50 lbs. either of you two want to do an experiment.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Jan 27, 2015 08:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

danielus... believe me am working on getting iformation at least i have stated those intentions that wanted to be in the loop, but it will take  a little while for him to have anything to say one way or the other. doing the oral 3bp about a week  same 1 gram in 1/2 teaspoon baking soda equal amount of molasses small shot of hot water . still no issues a lot faster than nebulizer. the whole deal mix and all 10 min total,  beginning to think a higher ph (8+) is not an issue this way. next blood work 2 mondays out have #s a few days later. keep you informed.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Jan 27, 2015 08:53 PM                   Quote | Reply

hey jcancom    just read your note small side bar yes i looked up  paracetamol and  knew it was acetaminophen, but you should read the bottle. tylenol  is the pain killer that doctor  use insted of acetaminophen  or asprin because it doesn't thin the  blood

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Jan 28, 2015 08:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

http://cancerdiscovery.aacrjournals.org/content/3/1/5.1.full.pdf+html

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/engeneic-and-asbesto

“Administration of EGFR-Minicells-Pac is feasible and generally well tolerated with a recommended Phase II dose of 1x 1010 minicells per dose,” the team reported.

In the open-label phase 1 dose-escalation-design safety and tolerability study, minicells were “loaded” with paclitaxel and coated with epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR)-targeting cetuximab, a chimeric engineered mouse/human monoclonal antibody.

A total of 235 doses of EGFR-Minicells-Pac were administered to 28 patients with advanced solid tumors, who received doses ranging from 108 to 5 x 1010 minicells per dose. Although the study was a safety trial, not statistically powered to detect clinical benefits, 10 patients were determined to have stable disease at 6 weeks and continued on the experimental therapy. “At 2 x 1010 and 5 x 1010, there was a significant elevation of TNFα and IL-6 and IL-10,” the authors reported. “OPS (O-polysaccharide) antibody response showed a 20-fold increase from pre-dose by dose 3 with no further augmentation following subsequent doses.”

Antibiodies to cetuximab “were not detectable” in study participants, they reported.

The most frequent toxicities observed were grade 1-2 fever within 2 hours of infusion and transient, asymptomatic hypophosphatemia, the authors reported. Dose-limiting toxicities included grade 3 reactive arthritis, grade 3 hypotension, grade 3 elevations in AST and ALT liver enzyme levels, and grade 3 fever."

[Above quote is from http://www.cancertherapyadvisor.com/safe-use-of-new-bacteria ]

The maximum tolerated dose of paclitaxel received by the patients in the phase 1 trial was300 nanograms!!!

{The human phase 1 study found that the maximum tolerated dose for paclitaxel loaded minicells was 10e10.

"It was discovered that an unprecedented concentration of one million to ten million drug molecules can be packaged within a minicell. (Bacterially-Derived Nanocells for Tumor-Targeted Delivery of Chemotherapeutics and Cell Cycle Inhibitors, 2007)."

However, the Nature Biotechnology article from 2009 (page 8) notes that one minicell can accommodate only 20,000 paclitaxel molecules.

(2x10 e4 paclitaxel molecules / minicell)x (1x 10 e10 minicells) = 2 x 10 e14 paclitaxel molecules per dose.

Therefore,

(2 x 10 e14 paclitaxel molecules)x

(1 mol of paclitaxel molecules/6x10e23 paclitaxel molecules)

=3.3x 10-10 mol of paclitaxel per dose.

1 mol of paclitaxel molecules = 853.9 g.

3.3 10e-10 mol of paclitaxel x 853.9 g per mol paclitaxel

=0.0000003 g of paclitaxel  per dose

= 3x10e-7 g of paclitaxel per dose.

The maximum tolerated dose of paclitaxel received by the patients in the trial was 300 nanograms!!! (Toxicity was not due to the chemotherapy but rather the bacterial cell proteins. However, the toxicity was described as minimal).}

The minicell dose was 1 million times less than would be typically given from straight chemotherapy.

{The recommended adjuvant treatment dosage of paclitaxel for breast cancer is 175 mg/m2 once every 3 weeks. [Note: The minicells phase 1 trial used weekly dosing.] Such a dosage would roughly be 200-400 mg. (I am not completely sure that this is correct. If it is not, a corection would be helpful). 300 mg is equal to 300,000,000 nanograms!

The minicell weekly dose ws1 million times lessthan the straight chemotherapy dose.(If this is wrong, please correct.)}

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Jan 29, 2015 06:11 AM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom,

I did not had the time yet to go through all the very usefull details you shared with us here, but I will try to make a simple summary of what I get out of it so far:

1. As a first step we need minicells. These may be prepared but it would require a lab and time to get into the process on how to make them. This is not possible for most of us, so I would forget this option. The other option is to get them from the company you mentioned. This may be possible for some of us. I will try to see if I can get them.

2. Next, we need to load the anti-cancer component into them. This seems easy and most of us coudl do it.

3. Than we need to coat them with specific components to target the cancer cells. First you need to know what are the overexpression that you want to target. In order to do thsi a patient can perform a genetic profile for about 2000USD. Some of us may be able to do this. If not we asume that there is an expresion of EGFR since this is typical in most of the cancers. Further, we need to get this e.g. EGFR target. We may be able to get such components from suppliers such as Sigma Aldrich. Using these to coat the minicells may also be easy.

4. Further, we need to administrat the minicells. The challenges related to this is that probably the most suitable way to delivere is IV and than all the earlier steps have to be performed in a sterile environment. Oral administration can also be performed but than the minicells would not be suitable for all of cancers. In addition, we need to administrate very very small doses. This is great but also a big challenge since larger doses may go beyond maximum tolerable dose.

My conclusion is that the most relevant bootlenecks are:

1. Geting the minicells.

2. Administrating them.

While I belive that this is a very interesting and relevant approach which may offer a bright feature in this world, it may not be something that we all can do it. Only very few of us. And then is not more different than the relevant clinical trials that most of the people can not access.

Am I wrong with any of the statements above?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:56 AM                   Quote | Reply

Last part of the url for the article did not copy properly.

Here it is:

S1535610807000906

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Jan 29, 2015 02:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, regarding your 3BP combination with Bicarbonate and molase ... I have some doubts - but is just my oppinion. Specifically, based on one of teh patents on 3BP oral the most suitable pH for effective 3BP delivered orally is around 3-4. Below or above is nut that suitable:  “These data underscored the importance and sensitivity of the buffering conditions used in administration of therapeutic doses of 3-BrPA. Unbuffered 3-BrPA, with a pH<2, resulted in immediate death, while buffering conditions that resulted in a pH>6 rendered 3-BrPA less effective as a cancer therapeutic.”  https://www.google.com/patents/US20100137434?dq=ininventor:%22Jean-Francois+Geschwind%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RSaLVP2uA8aAUZ7JgogM&ved=0CFsQ6AEwCA

Also, I would take it in the morning on emty stomach.

Page 13

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Jan 29, 2015 07:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

It should be noted that in the mouse studies, minicells had a curative therapeutic effect. When mice were injected with 10e8 minicells containing 520ng of monastrol per dose (dosed 4 times a week) tumor volume almost vanished after 5 weeks of treatment.

The human phase 1 trial results did not appear very impressive. Of the 28 pateints with advanced incurable cancer, 10 had stable disese at six weeks. Only 1 patient received treatment over a 15 month treatment period.

However, consider the dosing.

A mouse weighs 0.02 kg and received 10e8 minicells.

A human weighs 50 kg and, proportionately, should receive 2x10e11 minicells.

Yet, a correction factor of 12.3 must be applied.

http://www.disease-treatment.com/showthread.php?t=69630

Human dose with correction factor of 12.3: =2x10e10 minicells.

Maximum tolerated human dose was 10e10 minicells.

Mouse study dosed at 4 times per week, human phase 1 trial used weekly dosing. The mouse trial that dosed at once a week also saw tumor growth. The human phase 1 trial reported minimal toxicity that lasted for only 1 day after dosing (during the week dosing schedule). The dosing used in the human trial produced almost precisely the results that would have been expected from the mice studies. The phase 1 cancer patients were dosed just below what in the mice resulted in a curative response.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.4161/cc.6.17.4648

Cell Cycle. 2007 Sep 1;6(17):2099-105. Epub 2007 Jun 27. Bacterially-derived nanocells for tumor-targeted delivery of chemotherapeutics and cell cycle inhibitors. [look at figure 1A on page 5]

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Jan 29, 2015 09:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

The potential for minicells to prevent cancer should also be mentioned. Think of all of the people who just watch and wait for cancer without having any way of proactively reducing their risk of this horrible disease. Now consider what someone might be able to acheive with preventative minicell treatments. It likely would not require many doses of minicells every year to eliminate the risk of ever developing cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Jan 30, 2015 01:15 PM                   Quote | Reply

Using the mouse research as a guide, it would be expected that dosing human cancer patients with 10e11 to 10e12 of endotoxin free drug-loaded minicells would result in rapid curative responses.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

The actual drug loaded onto a minicell is not as significant as it would be if the drug were delivered systemically. The drugs loaded onto a minicell will never result in toxicity and any cancer cell that received a dose of 1 million to 10 million drug particles would be put under an enormous stress.

Yet, when drug resistance is first knocked down with minicells loaded with siRNA, the  theraupeutic effect of a round of drug loaded minicells can be further enhanced.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Sun Feb 01, 2015 05:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

Danielus and Howard,

I am very thankful for your discsussions. Similarly to you, I closely followed recent publications on 3-BrPA and since I am not an expert, to keep track I created a ppt summary of the papers, which may be useful for newcomers in the field:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w453ltcx4zhwixm/AACodokza5EIYxA2T

The link contains the overview summary and the .pdfs of the publications in chronological order. Any comment is welcome.

I did not find an original publication on the columbian case. I hope 2015 will bring new encouraging case studies. Good luck to you Howard!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 01, 2015 07:44 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Jpappas and Wellcome!

Thanks for the nice words and the link. This is very usefull! Very nice!

Indeed those are very usefull papers. I was going shortly through the Watson paper and realized that Piperlogumine may work wel with 3BP (binding to the active sites of several key cellular antioxidants). Piperlogumine is actualy found in Long Peper (Long Peper capsules can be found on the web as supplements).

The same paper reminds me that high dose Vit C may also work well with 3BP due its pro oxidant activity at the cellular level.

Finally, fasting will increase MCT1 and therefore 3BP effectivness: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25390336

This is why we should not eat before the 3BP administration. --> Preferably, the administartion should take place in the morning before eating.

Btw, Quercetin and Diclofenac are MCT1 inhibitors and will reduce the chance for 3BP to enter the cancer cells. They are very interesting and effective anticancer elements but we shoudl not combine with 3BP.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:55 AM                   Quote | Reply

howardA, I want to go to a clinic doing 3BP. My doctor has discouraged me from Dayspring. What is the name of the 2 clinics on the east coast you mentioned?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 01:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

Genelle,

Why not Dayspring?

Thanks!

Andrew

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 01:08 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes, indeed that is a very good question!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 01:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

Anyone has ideas on ways to upregulate MCTs?

Page 14

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Feb 02, 2015 02:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Oxygen therapy is definitely one way to upregulate MCT's with time. Even as little as 4 liters/min will help.

I can't help but think that EWOT at 55 liters a minute would be better but the 4 l/min for short time frames is reasonable. Best during Vit C IV's.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 02:47 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Andrew, thanks for that! I am glad to see this suggestion specifficaly because is coming from you.

On this line, I belive adding Myo-inositol trispyrophospate (ITPP) may be a great addition. Please have a look at this one and let me know what you think. Note: this is a component that is currently in clinical trials as an anti-cancer drug due to its capability to increase the capacity of hemoglobin to deliver oxygen into the body.

Therefore, if oxygen upregulates MCTs than Myo-inositol trispyrophospate (ITPP) shoud do a great job (besides the fact that alone is a great addition to the anti cancer treatment). Note that behind the company that is supporting thsi as an anti cancer treatment there is a Nobel prize winner. I am also curious what Dr. Ko thinks about this.

Looking forward to your reaction to this tip :)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Feb 02, 2015 06:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

This is great to see that we have regained contact with Dayspring.

Some sites are suggesting that Dayspring has not, in fact, treated anyone with 3-BP. Is this true? We will all feel a sense of relief when we know that under official medical care people benefit from 3-BP treatment.

Questions have also been raised about Dayspring's IRB approval. Are such documents considered part of the public record? If so, is there a website where they could be viewed?

Further, is there a requirement to report details concerning patient treatments and outcomes to the public record? For example, the number of patients treated with 3-BP.

Things are starting to become very exciting with 3-BP treatment. A few successful patient reports would definitely increase people's interest in the treatment.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Feb 03, 2015 04:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

Wow, what happened the last 2 posts just vanished!

One of those posts was mine. Can someone just remove my posts?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Feb 03, 2015 05:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Jcancom, I haven't seen any msg other than this from you earlier. I would just try to post them again.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Feb 03, 2015 05:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

Actually, you are wright ... I think I've seen a response from Andrew to you that is not here anymore ...

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Feb 03, 2015 07:22 PM                   Quote | Reply

It is weird. It is not just the response I received from my post.

It is my reply post that has been deleted!

I did not delete the post. How could someone else have deleted it?

I do not want to repost a paraphrase of the response we received, though i think it would be very helpful if the information were reposted (perhaps in an edited version if that is felt necessary).

Answers to the questions I asked would be much appreciated by many on this thread.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Feb 03, 2015 07:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

{Here is my reply post as best as I can remeber it, with appropriate editing to avoid repeating information that was deleted from the other post.}

Arguments about facts are not arguments at all.

This is super awesome!

The countdown has started! 10.9.8...

We are now all straped into a rocket ship ready for liftoff. When more patient reports are published online, our ignited solid rocket is going to blastoff. It will be a great honor to have a front row seat on the spaceship.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 08:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dayspring has treated patients with 3bp and is treating patients with 3bp. If a site is stating otherwise then it is either done deliberately in hopes of stopping any work with 3bp or done ignorantly by someone thinking that they know something they are truly ignorant about.

As for questions about Dayspring's IRB, it can be searched out by Googling "ANRI NORI" and looked for there. So again, there is either willful ignorance or deliberate deception.

Dayspring has seen a primary breast with bone mets come in with a walker and on Dilaudid for a month's 3bp treatment. She left in no pain and without a need for a walker. Not out of the woods but seeing the light.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

Has anyone else noticed that our thread appears to have disppeared from the Alternative Treatment discussions list? I have checked before and this thread was listed near the top in terms of replies and latest posts (click on these words to have an ordered list - might have to click twice to go from top to bottom). This thread should now be listed as number 5 by replies and number 4 by last post. Yet, this thread has disappeared from the list. Strangely if you look near the top of this page it is still listing this thread under ...--> Cancer Treatments --> Alternative treatments.

It is possible that given the evidence provided on this thread we will soon be promoted to a conventional treatment.

Here's hoping.

Page 15

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Feb 05, 2015 04:26 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yes, I've seen that too and though that is strange. I also saw that there are some errors related to my list of friends so I assume all these are errors of the "cancer compass" platform. I like to believe there is nothing more than that.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Feb 05, 2015 04:29 AM                   Quote | Reply

Btw, anyone looked at Myo-inositol trispyrophospate (ITPP)? Any thought on combining that with 3BP to upregulate MCT? Any other ideas?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:02 AM                   Quote | Reply

The search function seems to be down as well... only for 3-Bromopyruvate.

There is no way that a visitor to this site could locate this thread.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Feb 05, 2015 06:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Jcancom, fortunately we have Google who will guide anybody in search for bromopyruvate.

Guys, look what I came across today (with the help of some proffesors and doctors in oncology :)):

Enhancing 3-Bromopyruvate Toxicity in Tumor Cells By Inducing Hyperglycemia http://pharmacologia.com/abstract.php?doi=pharmacologia.2013 The cytotoxicity of 3-Bromopyruvate in breast cancer cells depends on extracellular pH http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25641640

So, based on this it seems that the more acidity around the tumors the better is 3BP absorbed. In this case administrating IV 3BP with glucose will increase effectivness.

In other words, Howard, who lately takes 3BP orally with Maple may be on the right track?

Any comments/additions?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 07:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

Butyrate also increases effectiveness "Butyrate promotes the localization of MCT-1 at the plasma membrane and increases the level of MCT-4 expression, leading to a higher sensitivity for 3BP.

Butyrate is available in the USA by Biotics Research "Butyric-Cal-Mag" as an over the counter product.

I have emailed CancerCompass asking why the thread search no longer picks up the discussion.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Thu Feb 05, 2015 07:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

afternoon to you all. still alive and kicken. the molasses makes it easy to takebut you might look also into stevia the new none sugar sweetener. it is recomended on the cancer tutor ( very good web site for alternatives) is supposed to be the only sweetener that they recomend, has some things that cancer doesn't like , can be used as a liver flush, should work well with 3bp and the flush. actually took it to my last chemo appointment. fast from 9pm to 9am drink 1 gallon of filtered, spring , distilled water (not from tap) , 8 spoons of stiva. drink over 1 hour, (9 to 10), and take all the nasty herb and spices that the little sugar sucking parisite doesn't like. eat lunch at noon. then go about your business. howard

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 06, 2015 08:18 AM                   Quote | Reply

Great to hear news from you Howard! When are you going to have the markers again tested?

Btw, regarding adding suggar there are different oppinions. I just had a suggestion today from a man with great experience and knowledge in the field, who said he would avoid that even in the context of teh papers I was reffering to earlier.

On that line, using Butyrate is probably best, as Andrew suggested.

Indeed there are several paper showing that Butyrate will support the 3BP effectivness.

Andrew, I like that you suggest Butyric-Cal-Mag and not at Sodium Butyrate. Do you have a specific reason in mind? My reason would be to avoid Sodium.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Fri Feb 06, 2015 09:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

Some people do very well with extra sodium, especially the adrenal deficient ones. I recommended Butyric-Cal-Mag because from a very good company.

Is anyone other than Dayspring Cancer Clinic in the USA offering 3bp as a cancer treatment?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 06, 2015 09:56 AM                   Quote | Reply

In general I would avoid sodium since is the fuel for many proton transporters.

I only know some potentials in Europe, but Howard may know more about US.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 06, 2015 06:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Salinomycin in combination with 3BP seems to be a good idea. The role of Salinomycin here is to specifically target the cancer stem cells. However, one of the main drawbacks related with Salinomycin is that is relatively expensive (about 3000euro raw material needed for about 12 IV doses). And I am not sure whether the ow cost oral version of low purity (up to 24%) tipically availabe would do the job. In addition, as we have seen earlier, it is easy to go beyond the safe dose ... Yet, there is another drug, very safe, that can be taken orally (about 2g/day) and may be very effective against the cancer stemm cells. That is Niclosamide: Niclosamide, an old antihelminthic agent, demonstrates antitumor activity by blocking multiple signaling pathways of cancer stem cells http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3777479/ Niclosamide Suppresses Cancer Cell Growth By Inducing Wnt Co-Receptor LRP6 Degradation and Inhibiting the Wnt/β-Catenin Pathway http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3241710/ Screen for Chemical Modulators of Autophagy Reveals Novel Therapeutic Inhibitors of mTORC1 Signaling http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2742736/

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Page 16

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Feb 06, 2015 07:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

beg to differ salinomicin  $200 a kilo delivered used as antibiotic for live stock. howard

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Feb 06, 2015 07:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

ps  they add it to the cattle feed so orally will work and dosage should be well documented        howard

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 06, 2015 07:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard, indeed that is what I meant by the oral version with purity up to 24%. I know that and the price. But my point is that only the IV version has been used on humans and that is very expensive since you need high purity. The oral version was not used on humans to my knowledge (with the exception of the reference I sent you before showing a human that inhaled Salinomycin by mistake leading to important side effects). It is clear that this is a drug not to play with. Of course when we have no options Salinomycin is on top of our list. But if you can find a much safer but highly effective drug such as Niclosamide which is also accessible, you would probably start with that first, I guess. At least this is what I would do. ;)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Feb 06, 2015 07:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

there is an old saying at least to me. " when in doubt dilute". if you know that you need x volume or weight and you substitute something that is 25% of pure and use the same volume or weight this should give a very safe margin for error.

marker #s next week.

also was told by a receptionist at dayspring several weeks back that there were 2 other clinics on the east coast. didn't get any other info than that becacse i live on the left coast, sorry my bad.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Feb 07, 2015 03:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

Speaking of sugar.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141217161629.ht

Johns Hopkins researchers have developed a sugar-based molecular microcapsule that eliminates the toxicity of an anticancer agent developed a decade ago at Johns Hopkins, called 3-bromopyruvate, or 3BrPA, in studies of mice with implants of human pancreatic cancer tissue. The encapsulated drug packed a potent anticancer punch, stopping the progression of tumors in the mice, but without the usual toxic effects.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 07, 2015 08:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

Due to multiple reasons I do not trust this Prof. Geschwind. In contrast to what has been already shown even in cases of treating humans, i.e. non-toxicity even with unformulated 3BP delivered systemicaly, this prof-salesman is saying: "However, animal studies have shown that in its free, nonencapsulated state, the drug is very toxic, says Geschwind." He is simply trying to build a strong case for his patents and company.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Feb 07, 2015 09:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

It might be a little deceitful in how the toxicity is presented, though widening out the safety margin for 3-BP would probably make many people feel more comfortable. Encapsulation is not an unreasonable (nor a novel) method for reducing toxicty. The description in the article on how to do the encapsulation is straight forward.

"Encapsulation of 3-BrPA in β-CD was achieved by portionwise addition of 3-BrPA (166 mg, 1 mmol/L) to a stirring solution of β-CD (1,836 mg in 30 mL DI water). The resulting solution was sonicated for 1 hour at room temperature and then shaken overnight at 25°C, flash frozen, and lyophilized."

The only unclear terms are sonicated and lypohilized which roughly translate to "Turn up the Tunes" and "Freeze".

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Sun Feb 08, 2015 01:12 AM                   Quote | Reply

The rabbits, that got the optimal dose of 3-bp lived twice longer, than in control group, but they still died. If the 3-bp is non-toxic and is a cure, why did they die?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 05:15 AM                   Quote | Reply

I like the idea of encapsulation (and targeting) as I think this is a clean way of delivery for any drug. That is clear and the work on this line is great. But claiming that otherwise 3BP is very toxic, to me, is misleading the humanity.

We can speak about rabbits, but we have two different case reports, published in scientific literature, treating humans with 3BP with no detectable toxicity and using a non-encapsulated form. In addition, we have the treatment in Columbia with great success, Howard and Jaquest here on Cancer Compass doing well on 3BP, Dayspring with good results on formulated but non-encapsulated 3BP. Personally, I know two people who were treated with 3BP and both did well on 3BP unformulated: an old lady who had 90% reduction of pain after the first low-dose 3BP and another lady who could not eat or go to the toilet due to cancer spread and after a few 3BP treatments she started to go to the toilet. No toxicity has been reported in any of these cases.

Therefore, what we have here is a component highly effective against cancer with undetectable toxicity and we have some “people” such as the Prof Geschwind suggesting that humanity should wait for his encapsulation since otherwise 3BP as is today (formulated from Dr.Ko or un-formulated) is toxic.

Otherwise, encapsulation is a great approach and I think it should be first applied using the thoroughly toxic elements that are being used today on humans to treat cancer. When encapsulation and targeting can be done well, I think we will not need 3BP anymore. Almost anything will work, even gun powder :)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Feb 08, 2015 09:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

why did the rabbits die? good question. possible  answer. mayby the researchers let the tumor/cancer grow a little bit to far before they started treating the rabbits. like the lad in germany who did eventually expire. the teratment did work but his parisite had already done to much damage. we all exist in a world where everything decays or dies it is just part of the cycle. i would say that the rabbits met the same end as the boy. the next question should be  were the treated rabbits free of cancer or did the tumors shrink. the fact that they lived longer says that 3bp was working just not quite as well as was wanted. unfortunatley you can't save every .. body

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Page 17

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Feb 08, 2015 01:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

Targetting cancer with minicells would overcome so many of the problems that have been encountered in cancer treatment. Almost any anti-cancer drug loaded into a minicell would show some level of effectiveness and minimal toxicity.

The delivery mechanism and not the contents would be of  paramount importance.

The encapsulation study did show better effectiveness and safety of encapsulated versus non-encapsulated 3-BP. Patients considering 3-BP should be aware of this result. The company that intends to commercialize 3-BP appears to have waited 2 years until this safer more effective form of 3-BP was available.

Yet, it is not entirely clear whether unformulated product at certain doses might be safe and effective. The current 2 published human reports of short term usage and other anecdotal stories appear favourable. One problem, though, might be  that toxicity issues forced treatment of 3-BP below therapeutic usefullness. For example, the metastatic melanoma patient treated with 3-BP was given treatments of 1-2.2 mg/kg IV infusions. This treatment resulted in a minimal response. However, in this particular instance, paracetamol was able to massively amplify the tumor response when combined with 3-BP.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 05:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

OK, so actually 3BP can be verry effective in its pure form when administrated in a clever way (such as with Paracetamol).

Regarding formulation of 3BP, what do you guys think is the reason of formulation and how that helps?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Feb 08, 2015 05:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

Here is a puzzle.

How could 3-BP show effectiveness or toxicity, if it is immediately bound up in proteins when given systematically?

However, we know that it can be effective when given systematically considering the response of the metastatic melanoma patient. (It could just be a question of the dosage used: below study used 1.75 mM, human study reported dosage as 1-2.2 mg/kg.)

"As our findings demonstrate the interaction of 3-BrPA with serum proteins, it is likely that the particular interacting 3-BrPA molecule will no longer be available for further alkylation or toxicity. Further, owing to the irreversible alkylating property of 3-BrPA, it is unlikely  that the 3-BrPA might be released from these proteins at later stages to contribute any toxicity."

http://www.pubfacts.com/fulltext/23866825/Systemic%20adminis

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Feb 08, 2015 06:21 PM                   Quote | Reply

Could it have collected in the skin? I do not know where the melanoma was located.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 06:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yessss, but look who is on the author list: Geschwind again. It seems he is constantly publishing papers to show that 3BP alone and withouth the encapsulation would not work.

However, like you say, based on published results and not only we know that 3BP can be effective.

Therefore Geschwind is simply wrong.

Finally, if we want to go forward with understanding the reality we need to go forward (and forget Geschwind's papers).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Feb 08, 2015 06:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

The melanoma had went metastatic. There was a huge lung tumor. They treated with IV 3-BP and with paracetamol there was a massive response. (minimal response at 1-2.2 mg/kg without paracetamol).

Even though the cancer was metabolically destroyed, the patient did not survive due to an inability to maintain oxygen levels.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 06:47 PM                   Quote | Reply

Have you checked the liver functions indicated in this paper? While the authors stated the patient went away due to inability to maintain oxy levels, to me it looks like the Tumor Lysis was again the problem. Have a look and let me know what you think.

Maybe the "minimal response" is what you want in order to controll and slowly kill cancer, specifically in such large tumors such as that of the treated patient? Thsi woulld probably help to avoid TLS.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Feb 08, 2015 07:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

I was not sure about their intrepretation either. They do make it clear that it was hypoxemia, though with the elevated urea, you do wonder whether TLS would have manifested soon. This highlights the importance again of being careful with using too much 3-BP especially in combination.

"The patient was in respiratory distress and hypoxemia was evident. The patient died because of hypoxemia"

"3BP is not toxic to liver or renal functions."

"Renal function tests such as serum creatinine (Figure4G) were within the normal range, with a moderate elevation of serum urea"

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:08 PM                   Quote | Reply

Is it pssible the "toxic" nature of 3BP they refer to is the fact that if there is too much cancer debris the patient dies?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

Howard,

Regarding the statement "there are 6000 molecules in 1 gram of 3bp"

=>There are 6.022 × 10^23 molecules (Avogadro constant) in a mole. So 1 gram 3-BrPA (Molar mass 163gr) includes zillions and zillions of molecules not just 6000.... see definition of Mole in wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_%28unit%29

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Page 18

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Feb 09, 2015 01:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

Another great antihelminthic pharmaceutical preparation is Ivermectin. Simon Yu MD has a great paper on his website about Ivermectin and cancer.

Parasites may compete with with a tumor for 3bp so addressing parasites first and then the tumor with 3bp is likely the best approach.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 09, 2015 06:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks for the tip. I had a look at it and I specifically like this article: '''The river blindness drug Ivermectin and related macrocyclic lactones inhibit WNT-TCF pathway responses in human cancer. '''http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25143352

In interesting that most of antihelminthic drugs have serious anti cancer effects and are proposed as re purposed drugs to treat cancer. One other that is very very relevant is Mebendazole. At doses of about 600mg/day is acting similar to many chemos (inhibiting microtubule dynamics) but without toxicity.

Back to Ivermectin, do you have in mind a daily dose and treatment duration?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Mon Feb 09, 2015 06:26 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry, correction to my previous post: 1 Mol 3-BrPA = 166.9 gr (not 163 gr).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 09, 2015 06:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcancom, look at the function after the 3BP treatment not during the treatment: ALT, AST, urea, all growing fast: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110469/figure/c

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 09, 2015 06:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

To me, thsi looks like Lysis, but maybe I am wrong?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

molecular weight or molar mass (wikipedia) is 166.85xxx grams. molar weight is the weight of 1 millilon molecules. round up call it 167 grams. a one mole solution is or would be 167 grams in a 1 litter container then add  distilled water up to the 1 litter mark. or 16.7 grams and add 100ml distilled water. this is also a 1 mole solution.questi on is do you want to know what the weight of the 3 bp is or the weight of the whole solution. ifyou put 1 gram in 20 gals of water you have to consume 20 gallons of water, if you put 1 gram in a glass of water you only have to drink the glass. i'll take the glass thanks. sorry my friend 1 million doesn't = zillions. water is not the cure 3bp is i think and am trying to prove it to myself

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Feb 10, 2015 08:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes, I saw the spike in ALT etc. near the end of treatment and I also wondered if the authors were not being forthcoming with information. I really do not see how a Tumor Lysis Syndrome incident would not have emerged in this instance. The second combination treatment had almost completely destroyed the cancer. It would seem very reasonable that such a massive destruction of cancer cells would quickly cause a problem.

In the liver cancer patient TLS emerged within 4 days and was expected to be fatal. The melanoma patient was also 4 days past the last treatment, so TLS is not an unlikely eventuality.

Why did not the doctors in either of these reports show an interest in preventing or treating TLS? TLS can be prevented and treated. It would be very useful if a report of a patient with severe metastatic treated with 3-BP and given the current standard of care (prevenatice and treatment) for TLS were published.

This thread might be giving a mistaken impression to others that TLS creates an insurrountable barrier to 3-BP treatment. This is probably incorrect. The reason why TLS has emerged as a concern in 3-BP treatment is exactly because it is such a rapidly cytotoxic drug for cancer cells.

Any comments on the medical implications of TLS in 3-BP treatment?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:00 AM                   Quote | Reply

I agree. The effectivness of 3BP is what we want from a anti-cancer drug ans we shoud not be concerned with that. Actual;y we shoudl be very happy with it :)

TLS is something we shoudl be all aware of and act acordingly, i.e. start withe samll doses and increaes teh dose until we see effectivness reflected in e.g. decreasing LDH levels. The decrease in LDH should be slow. I think/feel that the relatively slow LDH decrease that we see in the melanoma case when the patient was treated with 3BP without Paracetamol was good enough.

However, if the TLS occurs, that there is various medication that may help:

Phenylbutyrate to lower ammonia levels (but also important effectivness against cancer) - this is very expensive one (still expensive but less in China)

Hepamertz (IV or oral form) will suport the liver

Allopurinol - decreases levels of uric acid

Kayexalate - to reduce high levels of potassium (product labeling includes warnings of serious and potentially fatal gastrointestinal (GI) side effects)

High phosphate levels can be avoided with phosphate binders such as Calcium or Magnesium (that react with phosphate and form an insoluble compound.) and dietary restriction of phosphate

All of the above are available online and should be next to us during 3BP treatment.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:04 AM                   Quote | Reply

Any additions or comments on the above are welcome ofcourse.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:19 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning to all .... if someone has melinoma tumors that are close to the surface  look into  amazon black salve.. cheep and avalible on line. watch some of the outube vidios,  cool stuff mainard

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Page 19

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 05:23 PM                   Quote | Reply

An even better option for external tumors (and not only) is 3BP mixed with water, Natrium Bicarbonate (to adjust pH) and DMSO. Ex: mix 60mg 3BP in 1.5ml water, add natrium Bicarbonate to adjust pH to about 6 or 7, than add 2ml DMSO. This solution can be applied on the tumor (or tumor region if it is deep in the body). DMSO will help 3BP get into the body. ;)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

For many cancers TLS is not going to be a concern unless tumor burden is very high. It is only in these more extreme cases that TLS becomes a factor.

TLS is something to be aware of but can be managed. Danelius has a great product list and there is a HepaMerz like product in the USA called L-Ornithine-L-Argine by Allergy Research Group for hyperammonemia. High ammonia levels will alter cognitive function and that is a problem.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

I would strongly suggest sodium hydroxide and not sodium bicarbonate. Sodium bicarb is contraindicated with 3bp.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

Vermox (mebendazole) at 100 mg twice a day for 3 days as an antihelminthic. Do you have any info on the Vermox 600mg/day?

Again, as an antihelminthic Ivermectin is dosed at 12 mg 4x/day for 14 days. Not to be confused with worming horses as a single dose. Some will dose the Ivermectin for longer periods.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 06:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

Mebendazole at 200mg/day has been taken for long time by a ACC patient with good results: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21454232

However, it can be taken for much longer times and higher doses. Here is a quote from a great recent article that you will find very usefull: According to the guidelines published by the World Health Organisation, long-term treatment of cystic echinococcosis using MBZ is at a dosage of 40–50 mg/kg/day for at least 3–6 months. For alveolar echinococcosis, the dose is 40–50 mg/kg/day, with treatment for at least two years, and possibly longer for patients with inoperable disease. Indeed, there are documented cases of treatment periods of ten or more years  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096024/

I know somebody who is taking it at 600mg/day for nearly one year.

Combined with a fatty meal the absorbtion will increase. Adding Cimetidine will further help the absorption of Mebendazole.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

Roughly how much tumor mass is required for TLS to develop? (in cubic centimeters, or perhaps as measured by LDH)

The article on the liver cancer patient noted that 3-BP causes rapid destruction of large amounts of cancer cells. Many other cancer drugs do not cause TLS, largely because they do not have a comparable ability to  destroy cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Thu Feb 12, 2015 06:03 PM                   Quote | Reply

Can you show me the source of why sodium bicarb is contrainicated with 3bp?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Feb 12, 2015 07:57 PM                   Quote | Reply

3-BP's anti-cancer mechanism is related to Warburg's effect.

Warburg believed that cancer cells use to a much greater degree than non-cancerous cells the fermentation energy pathway in comparison to oxidative phosphorylation.

Might a simple demonstration of 3-BP's anti-cancer effect be to add it to a growing colony of yeast? Under anerobic conditions (similar to those in a tumor), wouldn't yeast immediately stop their growth and become dormant? This should happen because the yeast would have lost their energy source.

Is this correct?

(Research by the discoverer of 3-BP's anti-cancer effect published a paper that showed yeast were sensitive to 3-BP.)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Feb 12, 2015 08:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

One might be able to use the results from the below study as a simple test of the purity of 3-BP purchased.

The study found that 2 mM 3-BP had a substantial effect on the growth of yeast. Yeast with a GSH1 deletion were inhibited by 0.03 mM 3-BP! (A GSH inhibitor was used to great effect with the metastatic melanoma patient.)

J Bioenerg Biomembr. 2012 Feb;44(1):155-61. doi: 10.1007/s10863-012-9421-8. Epub 2012 Feb 23. Transport and cytotoxicity of the anticancer drug 3-bromopyruvate in the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Thu Feb 12, 2015 08:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3) commonly called baking soda is a natural substance used in the human body within the bloodstream to regulate pH as a counterbalance to acid build up, which is critical to life. It affects the pH of cells and tissues, balances cell voltage, and increases CO2 which helps with oxygenation. Sodium Bicarbonate is a powerful medical tool that everyone would benefit by knowing more about.

Sodium Bicarbonate can be used as a first line of defence for a vast range of sickness including, cancer, flu, diabetes, kidney disease and even the common cold. Sodium Bicarbonate can be used in many forms whether transdermally in a bath, orally or nebulised for lung conditions. It is so powerful in it's ability to detox that it can even be used against radiation exposure.

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Page 20

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Feb 13, 2015 09:43 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning to all... i had a bain fart... belend of conscious thought and written word.

if we accept the warburg effect ie. cancer eats sugar poops acid lives in acid dies in an akaline inveroment, classicretort ....this is in vetro (test tube) not inviro ( in a living thing).

if we accept ko's first studies that saved 19 rats and a boy. 100% sucess rate  as puplished.

if you also accept the reacent study by john hopkins that says 3bp also works as an acid in viro. although as i read the sucess rate while good at 80% survial (not so good if you are one of the 20%),also stated "that all rats died within 24 hrs. at a ph of 2 or less.

if you also accept the study felix found that said if alkalized 3bp were put in a solution with a stable ph of 7.4 it would hold that position for several days

if these things are for the most part true, would it not be a rasonable assumption that if......you put 3bp in an enviroment that is prewired to automaticaly adjust as needed to a ph of 7.4 (your body). that if you introduced 3bp as a high alkaloide ph of 8+, that your body would use the acids in it to neutralize to a ph of 7.4, also in reverse ,if you introduce 3bp as an acid your body would use  the  alkaloides (calcium, magmisium. potassium ), to bring the acid up to 7.4.

there for would it not be better to use an alkaloide to neutralize the acid on its way to a neutral position of 7.4, than to commit the much needed minerals to bring 3bp from an acid to body neutral at 7.4.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:01 AM                   Quote | Reply

ps... by stripping away the acid enviroment that that cancer lives in it will expose the cancer to the bodies defence mechanisiums. like draining the mote before storming the castle

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 14, 2015 05:00 AM                   Quote | Reply

Only now I see the suggestion (due to holliday). Thanks for the tip!

Indeed, it would be interesting to know why, but this is already valuable as I trust it coming from you.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 14, 2015 05:04 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi skaran, are you already taking 3BP? (From one of your previous comments I have seen you were considering doing that.)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by cytoluminator on Sat Feb 14, 2015 05:21 AM                   Quote | Reply

We have been using a form of 3bp for 2 years now. No offense to the previous poster, but his information about sodium bicarbonate versus sodium hydroxide is wrong.

If you go to http://cancer.cytoluminator.com there is a search box, enter glycolycin and go through the patents there.

If you use sodium hydroxide the 3bp falls apart in minutes. this is temperature dependent so it happens in seconds inside the body.

By using sodium bicarbonate you get a significant improvement, but even then it degrades in about an hour.

We are using a new formula nobody else knows about, which gives 24 hours survival of the compound at body temperature.

3BP is pretty powerful stuff, do not take more than 10 micromolar concentration (that's about 300 mg for a 60 kilo patient) or you will be throwing up.

You might consider adding artemisinin and a generous dose of hydroxymethylbutyrate, which you can get from body building nutritional suppliers.

If you want further information go to http://cancer.cytoluminator.com /contact.html and use the contact information there.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sat Feb 14, 2015 08:48 AM                   Quote | Reply

god morning skaran.... saw that daniel thinks that you are doing 3bp. is it true. would be interested to share notes with  you if this is true could you give me a tage. ......at...

and let me know. have been doing 3bp for several months with fairly good results ,but would like to make it better if i can   sincerly howardA

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 AM                   Quote | Reply

This is very exciting to have The Philippines on side!

Does The Philippines accept the notion of Right To Try? (so, would a patient be allowed to access 3-Bromopyruvate and paracetamol under a doctor's care, or minicell treatment?)

Without a regulatory environment which prevented patients from accessing effective treatments, the balance of evidence suggests that cancer is now already a treatable illness.

Patient reports from additional clinics using 3-BP would be extremely helpful.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 14, 2015 08:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Cytoluminator, thank you for you intervention. This is a great addition to the 3BP discussion and ofcourse now there will be more questions coming towards you   :)

I dit checked your claims regarding the use of hydroxide vs bicarbonate and based on the following paper they seem right: "The antitumor agent 3-bromopyruvate has a short half-life at physiological conditions" (yet, based on the same paper the bicarbonate version may be much more stable than about an hour at lower pH)

Maybe this is the reason why Howard can get so much 3BP withouth serious side effects since he is using the hydroxide version?

Yet, I am sure that Andrew had a good reason too saying that hydroxide is more suitable.

What is interesting is that regardlless of the published papers saying that 3BP combined with that and that is better than that, we see patients who are having good results with all 3BP versions, i.e. formulated from Dr. Ko and probably using hydroxide, Howard using hydroxide as well, unformulated (e.g. melanoma case and others I know), formulated with bicarbonate (Jaquest in this forum) and now glycolycin ...

Yes, I guess some will be more effective than the others and as a result will require less dose, but essentially all the combinations seem good enough for those in need. Off course, from a scientific point of view we have to understand all the details in order to get the best out of it.

I havent seen much about glycolycin effectivness with the exception of the claims in the patents. So could you please share more of your experience with that here? Indeed, 2 years sounds like a good amount of time and sharing at least the aspects that should be avoided during the treatment will help many.

Also, is there any specific reason why you would use artemisinin in combination with 3BP? (Besides its anti-cancer pro-oxidant mechanism following the interaction with Fe)

In the context of your vision on cancer (triggered by the immune system) do you thing 3BP is a real solution?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:11 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning ... if good works how much better does it have to get?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 15, 2015 04:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

there is always room for better :)

How are you Howard, everything is going well? Btw, I just realize today that a lot of general medication (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs)) have the potential to inhibit MCTs and thus reduce the effectivness of 3BP. You may want to check it and make sure you do not take them.

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Page 21

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Feb 15, 2015 06:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

A basic question: How effective would taking citrate (inhibiting phosphofructokinase of the glycolysis network), and then supplementing with NADH be for cancer control?

(Would not this result in an investment of 1 molecule of ATP for each glucose and then, (since phosphofructokinase is inhibited) no payback during the whole of the glycolysis? This should put considerable stress on a cancer cell which heavily relies on glycolysis for energy.

The NADH could then go to the electron transport chain and ATP would then be made. (Cancer cells have trouble with this part of energy generation).

Could the energy pathway be so easily sidestepped or would their be problems due to the requirement that intermediate molecules be made for other biological purposes?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Feb 15, 2015 07:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am not sure if I understand how NADH would help here (I also do not have the time now to go deeper into that) but Citrate is indeed a good idea to add to the 3BP treatment:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22318356 PFK1 would aso be (partialy) inhibited. Another way of further inhibiting PFK1 is by lowering the intracellular pH.

Btw, I am curious if Cytoluminator will answer our questions and start contributing here, or maybe his intervention was just an adverstisement to his website/clinic. I hope he is part of the first chategory. What do you think?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Mon Feb 16, 2015 05:26 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks to Danielus I have learned about Vermox (Mebendazole). I have started taking it. Meanwhile no side effects.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 16, 2015 05:48 AM                   Quote | Reply

Great! I hope it helps, Felix! Mebendazole has so much potential while beeing nontoxic, that I would sugest to anybody to take it. Another one that I would suggest to take toghether with Mebendazole (during/after meal) is Cimetidine (800mg/day - 400mg morning and 400mg evening). This will reduce/stop the chance of metastasis, will increase the absorption of Mebendazole and even support the immune system. In general, both Mebendazole and Cimetidine can be taken on long term (>year) with no side effects. Also, I do not expect any interference of Mebendazole with 3BP.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Feb 16, 2015 02:40 PM                   Quote | Reply

A little off 3BP topic but may be relevant for some of you:

I am in contact with a network of open minded oncologs who are going to meet sometime next month in Paris with the goal of proposing a new and nontoxic protocol against cancer. This protocol will focus on lowering the intracellular pH in cancer cells, a strategy that has been already shown to be effective in some patients even with pancreatic cancer. In this meeting they also intend to have several patients with whom they will start the protocols. The protocol will be probably made based on elements that can be taken at home, natural components and repurposed drugs. Based on what I know and expect, the time of the doctors will require no payment and the drugs are basic and cheep. At this moment, I do not know much more than this but if you are around Paris and interested in joining this meeting as a potential patient to start this protocol just let me know with a private msg and will put you in contact with them.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Thu Feb 19, 2015 03:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am taking 600 mg of Mebendazole every day.There is no toxicity from the treatment, but the problem is that it acts like taxane chemotherapy. So resistence will develop.

The following article says, that it is advantageous to use the chemotherapy intermittently and to use hormonal treatment (for prostate cancer) in between.

Overcoming Chemotherapy Resistance in Prostate Cancer

clincancerres.aacrjournals.org

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Feb 19, 2015 04:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Felix, it is difficult to assume that it will behave in the same way as taxane. However, in general it makes sense to cycle every treatment. On that line, I would take Mebendazole in cycles. For example, one month on and two weeks off.

Are you also taking 3BP?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Fri Feb 20, 2015 01:34 AM                   Quote | Reply

[quote]Are you also taking 3BP?[/quote]

No.

I have read about potential cure:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11220525/Prostat

Unfortunately they didn't start clinical trials yet.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 20, 2015 02:56 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hey Felix. Thanks for the link. I am already on it now   :) It seems that the element they use is an anti angiogenesis elements, specificaly inhibiting SRPK1. In this case this is relevant not only for prostate crazy cells but others as well. I wil check to see if there is any way we all could access this while not waiting for the clinical trials.

Btw, Thalidomide is an effective angiogenesis inhibitor. Very expensive in Europe/US (about 1000euro/month) while 10x cheeper from pharma company n Mexico.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Fri Feb 20, 2015 08:37 AM                   Quote | Reply

I have tried Thalidomide in 2008 with no success.

It is individual though, may be it can help to other patients.

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Page 22

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Feb 20, 2015 03:15 PM                   Quote | Reply

Indeed, it may help others. Based on some statistics I have (chemosensitivity analysis) Thalidomide is effective in 31% of people/cancer cells (including breast, prostate, blader, lung and adrenal).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Feb 24, 2015 06:55 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hey guys, trying to keep the discussion alive, here are some news: some people I know started IV with unformulated 3BP (similar the publlished approach used in the melanoma case, Egypt). The start was at low dose and low IV frequency (compared to what has been reported so far). Already at this low dose/frequency, all taking the IV have something in common, i.e. all experienced an increase in energy already during the IV. I think this is an interesting fact. Any idea what could be the mechanism that may lead to this increaes in energy?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 09:48 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Daniel,

3bp works to stop pyruvate from being inefficiently metabolized into lactic acid. Pyruvate normally metabolizes to acetyl groups for oxidation in healthy cells which overall gives 38 ATP vs 2 ATP via anaerobic glycolysis and the resultant lactic acid. So would a person rather have a car with 38 miles to the gallon or 2 mpg? 3bp blocks hexokinase 2 within cancer cells to stop this reaction therefore allowing glucose to go to normal cells to have the normal ATP production of 38 ATP molecules. Thus more efficient fuel use and better energy production by normal cells.

Did this make sense? It could be said simplier and the more intelligent discourses make something complex very simple so I don't know how I did.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 25, 2015 02:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Andrew,

I think this makes very much sense. Also I think everything has to be simple - otherwise we don not understand it.

On the line of your explanation, should we assume that this should be a rule: If the patient starts to feel the change in energy during/after the IV, than the 3BP dose in the reange of effectivness. Or diferently said, if there is no feeling of improvement of the patient condition, 3BP may not yet be at the effectivness level, i.e. increase dose and/or add elements such as butyrate, paracetamole, etc.

On this line, what do you think is in general an effective dose? 0.5mg/kg, 2mg/kg or 10 mg/kg?

(The people I know started with 0.5mg/kg while, the patent of Dr. Ko refers to about 2mg/kg and the patents of Geschwind are even suggesting about 15mg/kg.)

One more point, I do not know if I mentioned before but it seems that most of the elements such as Quercetin, Phloretin (possibly Curcumin), etc and Diclofenac, Ibuprofen are all inhibiting MCTs so they should be avoided during the 3BP treatment.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Feb 25, 2015 02:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Andrew, I have one more point to add: I very much appreciate your attitude to this subject and the fact that you are being activelly involved into this discussion, in contrast to others who are able to contribute but they do not.

This makes me TRUST in the good intentions of Dayspring clinic.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Wed Feb 25, 2015 07:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

i don't  know about extra energy but i do feel a realaxed calm after taking orally. as to the dosage.. the pattent says 20mg/kg i weigh 100 kilo's makes a 2 gram dose, taking 1 3/4 grams at presant  i have zero complaints or issues. once you learn how to handle the product it's a piece of cake ...

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dosing by experience is very tricky and very subjective. Not a conversation for this audience as the variables are many and are not necessarily quantifiable.

Also for dosing one has to evaluate tumor burden.

All the Best!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Thu Feb 26, 2015 09:46 AM                   Quote | Reply

no offence ment and none taken. have been watching this site for almost a year. before any body was talking my, my posts are here, my dosage isn't what someone else should do but a statment of what i've been doing if this product is as good as the research says .there are lots of drugs that have been talked about here most of them make me do more research, not a bad thing but time consuming. reality check most of us still have day jobs ,and can't afford all the medical fees. name brand drugs put people right back into the arms of the medical profession, if i had to personally pay for all of mine my family would be broke for the next 2 generations. my piont was and has been every one is scared of this product, my dosage is my dosage and not doing me any damage .... as far as verifiable would be happy to give a copy of my notes to those interested. wether people believe me is up to them. caviat emptor always approch new things with a degree of caution. this fourm asks the question has anybody done this my answer is i have, will it save me who knows but if i can pass  on some knoledge that helps someone else iintend to do just that. my dosage #s are correct and in viro have given me no problems would be happy to talk to any one about my protocals.

after 1 major surgery and 3 rounds of chemo i know what doctor can do . when i discovere 3bp it gave me hope that there is an answer, only to  find that this treatment wasn't available any where untill several months ago.being somewhat in a time compressed state then i chose this path knowing if i chose wrong i might not have the time to try again. hopefully i picked correctly. i are what i are and that all that i are ....

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

Can 3BP pass the human BBB?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 03:50 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi James, thsi is an interesting subject indeeed. Here is what I know about that, on short:

Science seems to say that 3BP would not pass. I remember I have seen at least one paper suggesting that. But I think that if you combine it with DMSO is may actually pass BBB. Indeed, when you apply DMSO on the skin of your e.g. hand, soon after anybody can fill the smell of DMSO on your face. When you combine DMSO with 3BP the smell that will be on your face is totally different and specific to 3BP ....

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Page 23

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 04:00 AM                   Quote | Reply

Actually, I am not sure if the example I gave stands but I belive that DMSO may help as a carrier in this case.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 04:02 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Andrew, given the fact that you also represent a clinic, your answer is fair I think.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 01:38 PM                   Quote | Reply

I just came across this one: Inhibition of hypoxia-inducible carbonic anhydrase-IX enhances hexokinase II inhibitor-induced hepatocellular carcinoma cell apoptosis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21666701

It means administration of (e.g. 250mg/day) Acetazolamide woud help 3BP effectivness since CA-IX is overexpressed in many types of cancers.

'''Acetazolamide alone is very helpfull to fight cancer since it reduces the capability of cancer cells to export protons outside the cell.'''

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Feb 28, 2015 01:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Acetazolamide can be bought from here http://www.unitedpharmacies.com/Diamox-Acetazolamide.html

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Sat Feb 28, 2015 04:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

James-Peters,

According to the two papers below 3BP does _NOT_ cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier in rats, therefore probably the same in humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3728150/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25053853 -> interesting: 3BP injected in the brain together with DCA

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Mar 01, 2015 03:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

I suppose if we wanted to take this to super crazy, someone might inhale 3-BP. That might be very dangerous because it could shut down normal brain cell activity. The fact that 3-BP does not cross the BBB might be a good thing.

However, it would be ironic if someone were able to clear cancer throughout their body with 3-BP, but not their brain.

This highlights the importance of aggressively treating cacner with 3-BP with a qualified medical professional before brain mets arise.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Mar 01, 2015 04:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

What about combination of 3-BP with regional hypothermia?

This reference might be somewhat obscure, though the article found that as temperature decreased, ATP generation through hexokinase also decreased. In fact, energy generation decreased quite a bit. HK inhibition of 93% at 20 oC versus 37oC, (Such whole body hypothermia would not be safe, though regional hypothermia might be. It would seem to make sense that decreasing (hyperthermia is also used in cancer treatment) temperature would stress a cacner cell.

One interesting consequence of this effect is that bumblebees are unable to fly when their muscle termperature falls below 30 oC. This causes an energy problem for them.

Might using 3-BP and regional hypothermia also cause an energy problem for cancer cells?

J Med Entomol. 2000 Sep;37(5):689-94. Effects of temperature and pH on hexokinase from the flight muscles of Dipetalogaster maximus (Hemiptera: Reduviidae).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

Is this cllinic/institure also offering 3BP treatment? http://beta.ensemba.com/view?resource_id=2885591&topic_i

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 02, 2015 07:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

This is super-awesome!

Where is everyone on this thread? This is large news. It would not be entirely unexpected to soon hear of other clinics across the US and elsewhere offering 3-BP treatment.

Another clinic has went through a deep thought process and concluded that 3-BP is a treatment that cancer patients should be offered. Not only 3-BP, but also salinomycin! I think everyone will feel a sense of relief when clinics across America are offering these treatments and it will not be necessary to travel to another nation to receive treatment.

The Atlanta clinic website mentioned Georgia's Right To Try Law as granting the legal authorization to offer their various treatments. These Right To Try Laws are going to help out a lot of people. They should have been introduced years ago. No mainstream doctor would have anything that would have helped the liver patient discussed on this thread. Why haven't terminally ill American patients been offered American invented treatments (such as 3-BP) until now?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 02, 2015 07:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

Um, Wow!

Am I the only one seeing this? [open access]

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2015/sc/c4sc01963f

Wonder if the Georgia clinic will offer 3-BP in this form (considering the location of the autors of the above noted paper).

The article noted targeted delivery and thermal treatment greatly enhanced the therapeutic effect of 3-BP by about 20 times. When they turned on the laser, they seemed to get even more of a boost.

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Page 24

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by beattheodds08 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 03:21 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you for sharing about Georgia's Right To Try Law, that is exciting news! Arizona just passed the same law with Prop. 303, and it passed by a landslide here in Arizona during the 2014 election. Giving Arizonans or anyone who comes here the Right To Use Alternative Cancer Treatments alone or with any current treatment they are on and cannot be denied.

The use of 3-BP is a great approach to battling cancer and everything thats be said about it, that i have read is very positive to say the least. I have found a clinic here in Arizona that I have set up an appointment with, to talk about the use of 3-BP. They have an article about 3-BP that you might be interested in reading too.

www.dayspringcancerclinic.com /3-bromopyruvate-and-dayspring-cancer-clinic/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 05, 2015 07:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

Welcome aboard! This 3BP thread has the best vibe of any on the net. The Inspire crowd should join our party here! Time for a takeover anyone?

You should be aware that a poster identifying as a doctor from Dayspring has been posting to this thread and is likely monitoring it. If you stay around here awhile you're probably going to be able to link up, perhaps you could private message?

It would probably be a good idea to read some of the back posts from the thread. There has been a number of very interesting ideas posted. Not to toot my own horn, though you might like to read my post of Saturday January 24,2015 10:01 PM. (I wrote about the Right to Try Laws.)

https://www.facebook.com/RightToTryNationwide

Arizona was a real leader on the issue. The map shows that only 5 states Arizona, Colorado, Michigan, Missouri, and Louisiana had passed such laws as of the start of this year. It should be no surprise that Arizona is now one of the only places in America offering 3-BP treatment.

The legal basis for the Georgia's clinic offering 3-BP might be somewhat weak with respect to the Right to Try Law. Many of these laws require a published phase 1 study. There hasn't been one for 3-BP. Yet, this is exactly why these Right to Try Laws were introduced! The regulatory system has been a complete failure with regards to 3-BP. It was discovered 15 years ago, an end stage liver patient received it several years ago and had a massive response, another patient report was recently published with a similarly impressive response, a phase 1 trial was supposed to start years ago yet it still hasn't. We the people have had enough. Right to Try Laws mean whatever We the people say they mean.

It would be amazing if you could somehow release those official medical results that you felt comfortable regarding 3-BP treatment. It would be a great service to the community for people to do so. It is very important for people to have some idea about the effectiveness of 3-BP treatment. We have been endlessly considering the only 2  reports that have ever been published.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 05, 2015 08:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

I have just got to repost this one. The research found about  a 1,000 fold improvement in 3-BP effectiveness when using silver nanoparticles.

The nanoparticles with 3-BP are able to enter the cell and then concentrate in the mitochondria. This makes them quite a bit more effective than 3-BP.

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2015/sc/c4sc01963f

The silver nanoparticles seem to crop up quite frequently in cancer research. I am wondering whether anyone on this thread could suggest the next logical step to amp up the effectiveness even more? Perhaps an oxidative stress in the mitochondria (might paracetamol help?)?

Would Au nanoparticles be available under to Right To Try laws?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 05, 2015 08:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

The update List for Right to Try Laws

http://www.raps.org/Regulatory-Focus/News/Right-to-Try/

The most glaring contradiction between the state's motto and their position on Right To Try seems to be New Hampshire "Live Free or Die". How did they distort the meaning of "Live Free" to mean Can't Try? New Hampshire, surf the Right to Try wave! Your motto should be "Try or Die".

Alabama's "We Dare Defend our Rights" also seems hollow considering their Right To Try position. Same with Iowa's "Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Mar 07, 2015 05:38 AM                   Quote | Reply

Howard, how are your markers going? Any news on that? Are you still taking 3BP?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 07, 2015 03:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

The Atlanta clinic told me when they use 3BP it eradicates the cancer but it comes right back. I spoke to a FL doctor who used to do it and worked with Dr Ko who told me he stopped using it after several patients had the cancer came right back. That is discouraging.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Mar 07, 2015 03:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Genelle, I think you shoudl ask those doctors what it means right back. So far, ith the exception of the case in Egypt that as to short to conclude, there is only one case of the boy treated in Germany. After about two years he was still clean. This is a clear fact which is not supporting a "right back".

Yes, I do belive that there may also be cancer cells left after the 3BP treatment, that are not relying on glucose but on glutamine. This is why I think combining 3BP treatment with e.g. Metformin and possibly Salinomycin may be a good idea to make sure you are totally cleaning the cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 07, 2015 04:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am going to send paperwork to him and see what he recommends.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Mar 07, 2015 05:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

What seems especially impressive with the liver cancer report was that no resistance appeared to have emerged. After many rounds of 3-BP treatments the entire tumor burden had become inactive. None of the cancer cells had found a way around 3-BP. For so many cancer treatments resistance is an inevitable complication. Even after successful treatment, if a few cancer cells can find a way around the treatment, the treatment becomes ineffective. The treatment has merely selected for the cancer cells that are immune to the treatment.

However, with 3-BP it appears that cancer cells might have a very difficult time resisting an energy blocking strategy. How could a cancer cell invent a new energy pathway? With the liver cancer patient it was found that the cancer cells were unable to create such a new pathway.

If the cancer clinics using 3-BP are saying that patients are given rounds of 3-BP, the cancer disappears, no further 3-BP is given, and the cancers recur, then that is exactly what would be expected.

It is self-evidently obvious that the cancers would recur without ongoing maintenance treatment. The important question to ask is: What is the result if 3-BP eradicates a cancer and then ongoing treatment with 3-BP or other medicines is given?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:13 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning danielus   my markers have taken a spike in the wrong direction the last three were 175 245 850. these #s have been taken 3 weeks apart. the lowest one was taken 3 days before i ran out of 3bp ,the last # was taken about one week after i got my last batch in. did some tests and was back at it on or about the same as the last blood draw. have bumped the dosage up to 2 grams aday. we will see how it goes. still feel good walking 1 3/4 miles every morning and working 6 days a week. no side effects at this level. am adding salinomycin and dca to the mix. will keep you posted

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Page 25

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 08, 2015 07:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

I don't think that it's surpising that 3BP alone doesn't mean the end of cancer. There needs to be a metabolic treatment Synergy. Cancer is complex. Yvar Verhoeven (the liver patient) three hours after recieving his first dose of 3BP "smacked his lips, and said 'I feel hungry.' He hadn't been able to eat for months." (pg 116, Tripping over the Truth, by Travis Christofferson)

He probably had already starved his cancer for months before he started treatment. His cancer was already on the metabolic edge (as Dr. Seyfried would put it). This is the one, two punch that no one want's to consider. I don't think that the 'cure' will be any one metabolic therapy but many combined. Stopping more then one or two feeding pathways of the cancer is going to be the root of all the treatments. I think getting into ketosis and keeping blood sugar low is the key that all other metabolic therapies will depend on. And until Dr. D'Agostinomakes ketone ester availible to the public at large, you're kind of stuck with doing it through diet.

I myself have been on a ketogenic diet for 1 1/2 years (it's not impossible to do). I also am on Metfomin, Aromatase inhibitors, DCA, and Curcumin. My plan was simple, I don't feed my cancer. I didn't have surgery, chemo or radiation because I knew that for me the absolute benefit of any Chemo therapy was 1.4% (not worth it). My scans are now clear. That doesn't mean the cancer is gone. It only means that it's asleep. It takes a billion cells to detect cancer by any means. That means it took about 10 years for my cancer to become detectable. During that time it sloughed off cells and put CSC (cancer stem cells), and CTC (circulating tumor cells) in my body waiting tometastasize.

I live like a diabetic and asume that that's what I need to do to stay healthy and have a normal life.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 08, 2015 07:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

That makes a lot of sense.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Mon Mar 09, 2015 04:27 AM                   Quote | Reply

Skaran, what you tell us is very positive and congratulations! Since you take aromatase inhibitors it is breast cancer I suppose, right? How much time did it take you to confirm that your mix works from when you started?

I recently came across the following webpage, which bets on a similar approach and ideas that have been discussed on this thread in the past.

http://www.singlecausesinglecure.org/the-restore-protocol/

"Our research goal is to fund a clinical trial employing multiple metabolic therapies at once.  We call this approach the RESTORE Protocol.  RESTORE being an acronym for RESTricted Ketogenic Diet combined with Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, Restoring apoptosis with DCA, while applying Energy inhibition with glycolytic and glutamine inhibitors."

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:35 AM                   Quote | Reply

I was diagnosed in Dec of 2012. I had won the cancer lottery. Both DCIS and Invasive  Her2/neu. There were three of us (neighbours and friends) diagnosed around the same time. Mine had the worse prognosis. After much research and soul searching I knew that "standard and customary" treatments were a dead end for me. I found Thomas Seyfriend's 'Cancer as a metabolic disease,'  and went from there. I have been veryfortunate. I found Ellen Davis:

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/cancer-diet.html

and was able to hire and work on the diet with Beth Zupec-Kania:

Ketogenicsseminar@wi.rr.com

Get some advise from Dominic D'Agostino as far as how much Metformin to take (I'm not a diabetic).

And cull through the work of Dr. Michelakis work on DCA

His (Phase one) trial to test for effective dosing came up with 6.25mg/k twice a day and efficacy occurred at 2 to 3 months. ( I take this with B1 to prevent any peripheral neuropathy.)

I have contrast MRI's every 6 months. The last 3 have been clear.

Of the 3 of us (the other 2 had surgery, chemo and radiation), one has passed (about 3 months ago) and the others immune system is shot. She has started implementing the diet and some of the other metabolic strategies that I'm doing, and she is doing better.

I am a big fan of Travis Christofferson and his single cause single cure as well as his book 'Tripping over the Truth.'

I am also a big fan of Dr. Robert Lustig and his book 'Fat Chance' and thank him for explaining to me how metabolic syndrome turns into cancer.

I am now working on 3BP (with a friend and University chemist) to get the formulation right and investigating Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy. The 1/2 life of 3BP is very short. I want to combine it with HBOT and the rest of my metabolic strategies to get the biggest bang.

I'll never go back to eating the way I did before I was diagnosed, but I would like to have a slightly less restricted diet from time to time so that I can eat out and travel.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have cancer for the rest of my life. That the 'cure' is a constant persuit for metabolic control over that cancer. I am just like anyone else who has a chronic disease. I've learned to live with it and even enjoy the 'other' benefits of living a ketogenic lifestyle. Dr. Seyfried said that treating your cancer metabolicly should make you healthier than you were before you were diagnosed and I can honestly say that I fall into that catagory to the surprise of all my physicians.

As I said I have been very fortunate. I have many friends and contacts in the medical and scientific community that I tap. From procuring obscure studies, to reviewing my protocol and suppliments. To writing the scripts that I need.

I will post from time to time as I have more info on the workings of 3BP. I figure it will take me another few months of investigating to get to the point of where I am ready to try it. I don't want to be a guinea pig (at least not much of one). And I want to make sure everything lines up before I start. Everything else I am doing has given me the luxury of time, to take my time and do it right.

I wish all of you the best and want to let you know that it is possible to do this. All beginings are hard, but I can't compare what I have gone through to the horrendous protocols that most oncologist put people through.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by ipappas on Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Skaran, thanks for this great and wise post!!

Since your last 3 MR's have been clean, what more can you expect from 3BP and HBOT, what is for you a "bigger bang" or how would you measure it? Thanks again!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 09, 2015 02:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am looking to metaboliclly treat what you can't measure with today's diagnostic equipment. Don't forget a tumor needs to be at least a billion cells large to be visible by any diagnostic means. I am hoping to target my cancer stem cells and cirulating tumor cells. I plan to do this for a month once a year (or maybe once every six months) as a prophylactic protocol for the rest of my life. As I said I would like to eat out once in a while and travel a bit without triggering a recurance.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 09, 2015 02:41 PM                   Quote | Reply

Wouldn't a lactate test (LDH) pick up on residual cancer?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 09, 2015 04:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

No. It is used to find a range of many illnesses. Also: Strenuous exercise may raise levels of total LDH, specifically the isoenzymes LDH-1, LDH-2, and LDH-5. Alcohol, anesthetics, aspirin, narcotics, procainamide, fluorides, and mithramycin may also raise levels of LDH. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) can lower levels of LDH.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 09, 2015 04:08 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Howard. I am sure you can push your markers back to loer levels. I remember you switched from nebulizer to oral version hen you were somewhere around 150. Is that true? If yes, why did you switched, and can you go back or combine with the oral administartion?

Also, what as the localization of your tumor?

Again, take care with administrating Salinomycin. There is a lot of info on DCA administration but here is one of the best summary that you shold read: http://www.oicc.ca/uploads/dca-health-professional.pdf

Indeed, starting the Restricted Ketogenic Diet in addition to 3BP would certainly help. Note that Keto Diet alone (and not restricted) may actualy make the tumor grow faster.

And dont forget the Paracetamol.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 09, 2015 04:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Skaran, indeed this is a great post and it helps a lot. It makes our belive system stronger.

You mentioned, you are taking Metformin. Could you please let us kno how much of that you are taking/day?

Next, you said "I am now working on 3BP (with a friend and University chemist) to get the formulation right and investigating Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy."

Could you please already share your findings so far? It would help a lot others. Waiting several months to finish the investigation might be too late for some. Please share. Any pice of info will help to build the puzzle.

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Page 26

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 09, 2015 04:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

For clarity, LDH will certainly help to follow some cancers. However, when looking at small values that may be connected to residual cancer cells, the related LDH will be hidden in the noise that "skaran" is referring to, triggered by various mechanisms unrelated to cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 09, 2015 06:10 PM                   Quote | Reply

At 108lb I take 1000mg of time released Metformin a day. I started at 133lbs with 250mg and slowly titrated it up. over 3 months. Your body goes into what they're calling Keto flu it's a false ketoacidosis. You're not really in ketoacidosis your body is releasing stress hormones that make you feel like it because it's not use to lower glucose levels. It's awful when you go through it, but it passes. People depending on the size and circumstances can take up to 1000 mg twice a day.

You need to speak with someone who can lead you to a therapeutic dose for your size. I was told at 133lbs that I can go up to 1000 mg to 1500 mg a day. I lost weight on the R-KD and found that at 108lbs I had no side effects with 1000mg and that it was a therapeutic dose for my size.

As for the 3BP I really can't add to what's been said in the forum. I am trying to simplfy the recipe (formulation) to get it to the right PH  and extend its very short 1/2 life and self life where it can be done in anyones kitchen lab. I will share when I'm sure it's has a maintained efficacy and is safe to use.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 09, 2015 06:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

I would be interested to know what range of LDH values would be measured in someone who has residual cancer. This seems to be a very important question as many people who are worried about developing cancer might take false hope from a low LDH number. The level of LDH in a non-exercising person (and other exceptions) should be farily low. The metastatic melanoma patient had a reading after the treatments of about 12. What number would someone with no evidence of cancer read out at?

[Any journal article references for this question?]

There has been talk of developing sensitive tests for circulating cancer cells. It would be very helpful if such tests could be developed and diagnose patients earlier.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 09, 2015 06:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

I would be very worried about changing the recipe for 3-BP. 3-BP has been shown to be a very powerful anti-cancer drug, increasing its half life might have dangerous side-effects. I would tend to stick with the formulations and regimens that have already been shown safe.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 10, 2015 01:16 AM                   Quote | Reply

Can you share who your doctors are who are familiar with these issues?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Tue Mar 10, 2015 05:57 PM                   Quote | Reply

danielus good day to all..i started doing my first tests in te middle of radiation and chemo  went into to that round at 125. was  figuring out how to handle it and get it into my body , doing a 1/4 gram a day for 40 days the last half of those 40 days i pretty  much had a handle on it 3 weeks after the radiation my markers were 450. this told me that nothing was working, went to 1 gram a day via nebulizer. i mix my 3bp dense 3 mole solution just because it takes a lot of time to inhale the mist, about 1 hour. alkalize with sodium hydroxide, tried baking soda thats a none starter for me. happy to here what someone else is doing to make that work.

stayed on it as the markers rose to 1950 over the next 6 weeks. on the ninth week they started back down 1550, 550, 205  and 175. at this point ran out of product and 6 weeks out the 850 #. this might seem scary, but i feel fine ,  thats the question i ask myself every morning. how do i  feel?

my tumor started in the bile tub, surgery removed that , then showed up in a limp node and has spred into the liver all very small and hard targets to hit.

have been on somewhat of a ketogenic diet since my markers were at 52 , if cancer likes it, it dosen't get any. if cancer dosen't like it it gets a double dose ,if it won't hurt me double it again.

on the salinomycin front  i haven't found any hard #s on dosege just at 1mg per kilo they can kill test animals with continus use. it has a half life of 12 hrs and gone in 24 this is probably the reason for every other day treatment down in bogota. also a study    evaluation of zinc against salinomycin toxicity in broiler pigs, done on 1-15-02. my dose here is (not to be talked about in front of the children ) is 330mg every other day with lots of zinc  the nexy day.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Fri Mar 13, 2015 01:16 PM                   Quote | Reply

Two of my Southern Cal doctors are boning up on the DCA HBO metformin Keto protocol. Costa mesa and Pasadena. They will probably be up to speed in a couple of months for me to do it. FYI in case anyone else is interested.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 13, 2015 02:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

Phenformin might be better.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897486/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 13, 2015 02:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

"The EC50 of metformin were 15,200,000 times, 448 times, 67 times, 26 times, and 25 times higher than phenformin in B16F10 (melanoma), MCF7 (breast cancer), CT26 (colon cancer), A549 (lung  cancer), and DU145 (prostate cancer), respectively."

Wow!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Fri Mar 13, 2015 03:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

They can get metformin covered by insurance. Not sure about Phenformin.

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Page 27

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am interested to hear the opinions of those on this thread concerning the safety of phenformin as an anti-cancer agent.

There has been considerable excitement raised recently about the use of metformin as an anti-cancer agent.

Yet, "Phenformin is a 50-fold more potent inhibitor of mitochondrial complex I than metformin. However, Phenformin was associated with a higher incidence of lactic acidosis,"

The risk of lactic acidosis in metformin users is about 3 per 100,000 patient years while it is roughly 64 per 100,000 patient years in those using phenformin. Lactic acidosis has a mortality rate of about 50%. Yet, there has been some recent encouraging treatment successes with lactic acidosis

(e.g. Efficacy of continuous venovenous haemofiltration (CVVH) in the treatment of severe phenformin-induced lacticacidosis Nephrol Dial Transplant (1998)13:1012-1015).

[Spermidine (from grapefruit0 might be an effective treatment.]

Many (in some articles all) of the patients who developed lactic acidosis had co-morbidities (especially acute heart failure and acute renal failure). Some diagnoses of lactic acidosis took some time to be made as it was not clear on presentation what was wrong.

In addition, the phenformin dosage for cancer has yet to be optimized.

"Considering cancer therapy would be quite different from its priorclinical use for diabetes, we could optimize dosing and duration of Phenformin treatment to reduce serious side effects."

Synergistic Effect of Phenformin in Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer (NSCLC) Ionizing Radiation Treatment

Given this information, would phenformin be preferred over metformin?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:05 AM                   Quote | Reply

Most of the studies going on now are being done on Metformin but I did find a resent one comparing the two.

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/29/10574.full

There are some slight difference on how they effect certain metabilites, and which one would be the most effective on CSC. There needs to be much more done on this line of research to know if Phenformin is better at targeting CSC or just a stronger biguanide.

But in another study:

http://www.atmjournal.org/article/view/3965/4955

I'm quoting here: emphasis in italics and bold print and underline are mine.

"Recently, the inhibitory activity of metformin on CSC phenotypes and functions have received more attention. We showed that metformin treatment attenuates the CSC phenotypes and functions such as CSC self-renewal capacity and CSC signature and its mediators, consistent with attenuation of cell proliferation and migration in pancreatic cancer drug-resistant cells (64). It has also been reported that metformin selectively diminished the expansions of CSC clones through induction of apoptotic function and the inhibition of CSC mediators and markers, consistent with attenuation of tumor growth in animal models. However, non-CSC tumor cells only showed cell cycle arrest, but was unable to eliminate the cells when treated with metformin (65). These results may indicate that CSCs or CSC-like cells appear to be more vulnerable to metformin treatment than non-CSC tumor cells. The reason why the CSC cells appear to be more sensitive to metformin may be due to  its primary mechanism on glucose metabolism. It has been noted that under the conditions of glucose deprivation, metformin treatment increases apoptotic cell death in breast cancer cells, while under the conditions of high level of glucose, metformin treatment mostly caused cell cycle arrest without the signs of apoptotic cell death in breast cancer cells (66). High levels of glucose has also been reported to increase the percentage of the side population (SP, CSC-like) cells, consistent with the activation of Akt pathway and suppression of AMPK activation, leading to the elevation of ABCG2 expression (67). These data suggest that CSC cells may be more sensitive to metformin, potentially due to its modulation of glucose homeostasis."

And we're back to the fact that this works best in cancer stem cells when we starve them and they are on the metabolic edge. (aka R-KD)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:29 AM                   Quote | Reply

I think Metformin is clearly an element to be considered as a part of an anti cancer treatment strategy. Is is typically given to every cancer patient at some of the very well known anti-cancer clinics in Germany.

My question now to all is what to expect when combining Metformin and even more Phenformin with 3BP. Specifically Phenformin seems to lead to lactic acidosis. What is the mechanism behind? Will this lead to increased expression of MCT transporters in the normal cells as well? And if yes, will 3BP start to kill normal cells as well?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

Should we combine DCA with Metformin? DCA helps to bring pyruvate back on track to mitochondria while Metformin inhibits mitochondria.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:43 AM                   Quote | Reply

I was discussing this weekend with somebody very knowledgeable in the field about Keto Diet and the statement from this person was that there is no documented case of patient who was purely cured by keto diet alone. It seems that there was allways another form of treatment that was given to those patients who were cured, next to keto diet. This applies even for the patients of Thomas Seyfried. Any reactions/references to support or not this?

Btw, I  like a lot the science behind restricted keto diet.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:45 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks a lot for the details Skaran!

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:56 AM                   Quote | Reply

Howard, first I think that there is no reason to expect that you create some 3BP resistence. I also think that you take a lot of 3BP and it should be effective. Since you do not see much effectivness, I think that eithwer there is something wrong with your source of 3BP, or the way you change pH of 3BP using sodium hydroxide may need to be changed to sodium bicarbonate, or you need to check the stability or 3BP somehow dosent reach the tumors. Regarding the last, I think you need to start using Paracetamol. Or maybe you already did this? Btw, why sodium bicarbonate i a non starter for you?

Did you really started to take Salinomycin 330mg every other day? If that is true, I guess that is low purity?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:40 AM                   Quote | Reply

morning danielus.... the sorce of the 3bp is fine it has the same taste and smell as the first batch only cleaner. 3bp is made world wide by the ton, i really don't think that someone set my batch aside and said lets get him. as to the effectiveness of the product, it was the first batch that was older that brought my marker different delivery (orall insted of nebulized) is a matter of conveience. am still going for a body neutral ph. the reason for this is if you inhale 3bp that is to aklaline you can feel if it is a little to  hot the same is also very true if it is to acidic. somewhere in the 6.5 range it starts to be uncomfortable. call me silly but that is my body saying no.
 * 1) s down the first time. i expect the same from this batch, the

the amount of 3bp that i take dosen't bother me it has no side effects, besides it is cheep less than $1 a gram ,we will see where the next couple of marker #s go. can always go back to the nebulizer.

sodium bicarb is a problem in that it dosen't go to much more than a 1 mole solution (very sloid) whereas sodium hydroxide is very soluable in water. could switch to potassium cloride. i'm sure that with enough study someone will come up with a pill that mixes in the stomach and can be taken as a solid. but i'm just a autobody, hot rod kind of guy that was pushed by reaserch and life into this corner. besides have you ever tried to nebulize a powder?

salinomycin.... yes i'm taking 330mg, every other day might be overstating , but 2 or 3 times a week. remember 100 kilos healthy, with no issues at this piont.

bottom line you guys want and need this information, there is a lot of discussion about this or that but no actual human data, this is a start. if the markers start going back down we have a winner and maybe someone else can save his or her sorry carcas at home  howard

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:28 AM                   Quote | Reply

You are very brave HowardA

Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right, Because their words had forked no lightning they Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

The first documented use is Linda Nebeling.

1. Two patients,  3 year old girl with stage 4 anaplastic astrocytoma and 8 1/2 year old girl  with grade 3 cerebellar astrocytoma (it had progressed from low-grade tumor at age six). They both had extensive treatments and those treatments had failed. They were not expected to live more than 3 years.

2. After begining the diet, Pet scans showed a 22% reduction in tumor uptake over 9 months.

If you want to read all about it yourself:

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/4/1/5

I am surprised that someone you claim "knows" a lot about ketogenic diets is unfamiliar with this study from 2007.

3.  Though Nebeling left the program after 1 year, she tried to find out what had happened to the girls. She found out that one had lived 10 years and the other at least 15 years beyond the prognosis till the hospital had stopped tracking and lost contact with the patients.

Page 28

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

I have been taking 6.25mg/k DCA for the past year with 1000mg time released Metformin; without any noticeable side effects with good results.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

There seem to be a lot of different keto diets. I think someone with kidney issues would need one not as restrictive. What do you think about the different options?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

There is only one Restricted Ketogenic Diet (R-KD) for cancer. That's the one that limits carbohydrates to 12 grams a day and protein is restricted to .8 to 1.2 grams (I use 1 gram) of protein for every Kilogram of body weight. The rest is Fat!!!!

If you are using another formula for cancer then you will not bring your ketones up and your glucose down enough to do the job.

There are a lot of variations to ketogenic diets that are out comes of a paleo diet but that isnotthe medical R-KD diet.

Again I recommend that you get Ellen Davis's Ebook "Fight Cancer with a Ketogenic Diet.  It is the best $25 you will ever spend.

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/cancer-diet.html

I just want to say that I am not her spokes person and I get no benefit from telling you this.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

OK thanks. Is there any way to do it at a lessor level for a kidney patient?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 01:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

From what I understand a low carbohydrate diet will improve kidney function.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 02:02 PM                   Quote | Reply

Here is an easy to understand article that will explain R-KD for CKD patients.

http://www.renalandurologynews.com/high-fat-low-carb-diet-be

Hope this helps.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 02:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

When my kitty had kidney issues at 22 they put him on a low protein diet so maybe the keto diet is high in fat. My friend with breast cancer and whose kidneys were almost destroyed with biphosphonates is not allowed much protein.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 04:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

Planta Med. 1985 Dec;51(6):473-7.

Forskolin: from an ayurvedic remedy to a modern agent.

Ammon HP1, Müller AB.

Author informationAbstract

Ancient Hindu Ayurvedic texts described the use of extracts from COLEUS species. An isolated diterpene from COLEUS FORSKOHLII, called forskolin, was demonstrated to be a hypotensive agent with spasmolytic, cardiotonic and platelet aggregation inhibitory activity. It has been shown to be a powerful activator of the enzyme adenylate cyclase in various tissues. Forskolin is thought to act on the catalytic subunit and also on the coupling mechanism of guanine regulatory sites (Ns and Ni) with the catalytic subunit. It is now clear that forskolin elicits physiological responses which have been shown to be cAMP-dependent

In a previous study it has been shown that treatment of cancer cells with dichloroacetate (DCA), a TCA cycle inducer, is able to redirect their metabolism from glycolysis to oxidative phosphorylation and hence to lead them towards apoptosis [18]. Therefore, it has been supposed that induction of a reversion of the Warburg effect coupled to a treatment able to interfere with mitochondrial activity could specifically kill cancer cells. Recently we have shown that exogenous activation of PKA pathway can improve several mitochondrial parameters, leading to a Warburg effect reversion, in K-ras cancer cells, where the Protein Kinase A (PKA) pathway is generally deregulated [19]. In fact, cancer cells treated withforskolin (FSK), an activator of adenylate cyclase [20], show an increase of Complex I activity, an increase of mitochondrial ATP production, a decrease of ROS generation, and an increase of mitochondria interconnections, that may lead to survival under glucose depletion [15].

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 04:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks for the references.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 04:45 PM                   Quote | Reply

I forgot to put the source. International Journal of Cell Biology Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 243876, 14 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/243876

Research Article

Mitochondrial Complex I Inhibitors and Forced Oxidative Phosphorylation Synergize in Inducing Cancer Cell Death

Roberta Palorini,1,2 Tiziana Simonetto,1 Claudia Cirulli,1,2 and Ferdinando Chiaradonna1,2

1Department of Biotechnology and Biosciences, University of Milano-Bicocca, Piazza della Scienza 2, 20126 Milan, Italy 2SysBio Centre of Systems Biology, Piazza della Scienza 2, 20126 Milan, Italy

Received 2 December 2012; Revised 22 February 2013; Accepted 28 February 2013

Academic Editor: Claudia Cerella

Copyright © 2013 Roberta Palorini et al. This is an open access article distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Page 29

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 04:45 PM                   Quote | Reply

Skaran, thanks for the references.

Regarding the great positive results you had, I was wondering whether you used DCA, MEtformin, Curcumin and Restricted Keto Diet alone or wethere there were any other interventions on the tumor as well?

About DCA+Metformin, I am not suggesting that they would lead to specific side effects. What I was suggesting is that some of the mechanisms related with the two are antagonistic.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 05:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

It seem tat 3BP and DCA are similar. Does anyone think one is better than the other?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 15, 2015 05:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Genelle, DCA and 3BP mechanisms are not similar. Dichloroacetate inhibits PDK, thereby switching celular energy metabolism from glycolysis to mitochondrial OXPHOS. 3BP inhibits HK2.

DCA is very good one but in some cases may stop working after a while when mitochondria is or becomes damaged. Due to its action, in such case 3BP would still work. So, in theory, 3BP is far better.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 05:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

OK thanks

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Mar 15, 2015 06:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorting out the anti-cancer response to metformin by genotype might be helpful for patients.

Future Oncol. 2015 Mar;11(5):759-70. doi: 10.2217/fon.14.317. Potential and real 'antineoplastic' and metabolic effect of metformin in diabetic and nondiabetic postmenopausal females.

Phenformin seems relatively safe for the purposes considered within the context of cancer treatment. In the articles that described patients who developed lactic acidosis many of these patients arrived at the hospital in distress. It often took quite some time for the doctors to understand the nature of their problem. In one of the articles a patient continued to be treated with phenformin even after being admitted to hospital with lactic acidosis!

Yet, in cancer patients without the co-morbidities noted to increase risk of lactic acidosis (heart failure, kidney failure etc.), who are carefully monitored and have access to treatments that might control the problem (e.g. haemofiltration (CVVH) [noted earlier in the thread], and possibly spermidine), phenformin might be a reasonable choice.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 07:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

I did have cryoablation, but left the tumor in place. I didn't have any surgery, cytotoxic chemotherapy or radiation.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sun Mar 15, 2015 08:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

It's not a question of DCA being better or worst than 3BP. They mostly target different pathways. DCA targets PDK pathway and 3BP infiltrates through HK2 they can work in concert with each other.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sun Mar 15, 2015 09:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/ipdf/10.1021/cb400944y.

Mito DCA?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 16, 2015 04:43 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks Skaran, did that killed completely the tumor or you still had left something in place? Have you had a PETCT?

Regardless, there were probably at least CTCs left in the blood stream and the protocol you are following clearly helps against that. With CTCs in mind, I would also add Cimetidine, Modified Citrus Pectin and Nattokinase next to what you are already using.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 16, 2015 05:04 AM                   Quote | Reply

When making a choice on the theraphy, I agree. You do not necesarely have to make a choice since they will work well toghether. I would add them both if I would have that option.

On the other hand, I think the question is still fair since the accesibility, effectiveness, bioavailability/"tumoravailability" and the side effects are very different.

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Page 30

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:13 AM                   Quote | Reply

The above posted article (good url below) is very impressive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033660/#notes-1

"...three-orders of enhanced potency compared to DCA in cancer cells suggested that Mito-DCA has the potential to be nontoxic in normal tissue and highly efficacious in cancer cells."

A highly detailed methodology of how to make Mito-DCA is given in the article. It will be interesting to see whether any of the kitchen chemists here will try to make it.

"Lactic acidosis is a physiological condition characterized by low pH in body tissues and blood (acidosis) accompanied by the buildup of lactate, especially L-lactate, and is considered a distinct form of metabolic acidosis. Lactic acidosis is characterized by lactate levels >5 mmol/L and serum pH <7.35." Wiki

As we have seen with the metastatic melanoma patient treated with 3-BP and paracetamol, high lactate levels are a central feature of cancer. Effectively treating the problem of lactic acidosis is intimately connected with treating cancer.

Given this background, it is strange that the article on spermidine, which  effectively treated lactic acidosis with nmolar doses, did not mention the potential of using spermidine for cancer treatment.

"The results showed thatspermidineeffectively and simultaneously inhibited the lactate and pyruvate accumulations, and also adjusted the pH of bloodstream."

Regul Toxicol Pharmacol.2014 Nov;70(2):514-8. doi: 10.1016/j.yrtph.2014.08.015. Epub 2014 Sep 6.

Spermidine can be found in grapefruit.

Comments?

A highly detailed methodology of how to make Mito-DCA is given in the article. It will be interesting to see whether any of the kitchen chemists here will try to make it.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:42 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Danielus,

I just want to give you a heads up. Please don't take it the wrong way.

When suggesting that people add suppliments to their regimens. You need to be aware of interactions they might have as a consequence.

Cimetidine (other wise known as Tagament) Can be problematic for someone like me. I am taking the Metformin at the highest does that I can tolerate specifically to combat Her2ampification(this is the real bad guy in my story as far as metastasis) as well as CSC and CTC (This is specific to me). If I add Cimetidine there is an interaction.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1386190/

"It is concluded that cimetidine inhibits the renal tubular secretion of metformin in man, resulting in higher circulating plasma concentrations. Because of its propensity for causing dose and concentration-dependent adverse effects, the dose of metformin should be reduced when cimetidine is co-prescribed."

Mixing Metformin and Cimetidine may cause you to experience weakness, increasing sleepiness, slow heart rate, cold feeling, muscle pain, shortness of breath, stomach pain, feeling light-headed, and fainting. Necessitating a lower dose of Metformin

To use these two drugs together I would have to lower the amounts of Metformin (a drug that I wish I could take at higher doses).

Maybe a better way of saying it is that, "you should look into drug x, as it might give you some benefit".

I did the cryo because of the work of Dr. Michael S. Sabel at the University of Michigan and his work on the "Immunologic response to cryoablation of breast cancer."

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/44226

Also I don't do Mammograms, Pet or CT scans anymore. I don't want the radiation exposure. I only do MRI's with contrast.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:59 AM                   Quote | Reply

Interesting that MCT1 inhibitors with metformin were effective in cancer.

Cancer Res. 2014 Feb 1;74(3):908-20. doi: 10.1158/0008-5472.CAN-13-2034. Epub 2013 Nov 27. Blocking lactate export by inhibiting the Myc target MCT1 Disables glycolysis and glutathione synthesis.

Especially considering MCT-1 is needed for 3-BP effectiveness.

Nat Genet.2013 Jan;45(1):104-8. doi: 10.1038/ng.2471. Epub 2012 Dec 2.

MCT1-mediated transport of a toxic molecule is an effective strategy for targeting glycolytic tumors

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hey Jcancom, great finding!

I actually belive that a strategy focused on inhibiting proton transport out of the cancer cell (which includes MCT inhibition but not only) is as powerfull as 3BP. This paper suggests that metformin would indeed help both strategies (3BP or proton transport inhibition) due to the upregulation of glycolysis.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

(Looks like they have found a way to make money from 3-BP by doing the reverse process.)

I have no idea if this makes sense, though, I wonder if both approaches could be combined to synergistically increase the anti-tumor effect. The tumor might just vaporize!

1. Paracetamol and 3-BP could go in for Round 1.

2. After 3-BP treatment, an MCT-1 inhibitor and metformin might be given.

Perhaps such an approach would be like flooring the accelerator and then jamming on the breaks. This might place overwhelming stress on cancer cells.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 01:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

"Notably, disrupting MCT1 function leads to an accumulation of intracellular lactate that rapidly disables tumor cell growth and glycolysis, provoking marked alterations in glycolytic intermediates, reductions in glucose transport, and in levels of ATP, NADPH, and ultimately, glutathione (GSH). Reductions in GSH then lead to increases in hydrogen peroxide, mitochondrial damage, and ultimately, cell death."

Cancer Res. 2014 Feb 1;74(3):908-20. doi: 10.1158/0008-5472.CAN-13-2034. Epub 2013 Nov 27. Blocking lactate export by inhibiting the Myc target MCT1 Disables glycolysis and glutathione synthesis.

If they wanted to reduce GSH levels why didn't they combine with paracetamol?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 02:25 PM                   Quote | Reply

"Our findings also suggest that pro-oxidant therapies will augment the potency of lactate transport inhibitors and that other means of disrupting GSH synthesis, for example by inhibiting cysteine or cystine transporters (49), will be effective therapeutic strategies for tumors with MYC involvement."

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 16, 2015 02:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

So I do hig dose Vit C would that help? I also do fever therapy with Iscador.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 03:04 PM                   Quote | Reply

The problem of interference noted above might apply.

(Once you get beyond 2 or 3 drug combination treatments there can be cross-reactions. Many cancer treatments cause a wide number of chemical changes).

The pro-oxidant benefit noted above should be understand within the context of MCT1 inhibition of MYC cancers.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 03:26 PM                   Quote | Reply

"...We next asked whether MCT1 expression can also predict 3-BrPA sensitivity within a single cancer type and focused on breast cancer lines because they exhibit a particularly wide range of MCT1 expression levels (Supplementary Fig. 5).

Indeed, breast cancer lines with high MCT1 protein levels are sensitive to 3-BrPA, whereas those with low to no MCT1 are resistant to even high concentrations of 3-BrPA."

Nat Genet. 2013 Jan; 45(1): 104–108.

Published online 2012 Dec 2.doi : 10.1038/ng.2471

MCT1-mediated transport of a toxic molecule is an effective strategy for targeting glycolytic tumors

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Page 31

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 16, 2015 03:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/feb2002_report_acam_01.h

Dr. Ryser stated that in her clinical practice, every cancer patient she had tested turned out to suffer from hypercoagulability. It appears that cancer cells produce a protein that acts as a pro-coagulant. Research confirms that cancer patients have an increased incidence of blood clots, and that low-dose heparin can be a useful adjunct therapy in cancer, increasing survival. Diabetics and AIDS patients also appear to benefit from low-dose heparin, according to Ryser.

Hypercoagulability is part of the inflammatory response. It has not received the full attention it merits. We know that an excess tendency toward clotting is undesirable, and may indeed be fatal in the case of heart attacks and strokes. So far, however, not too much has been said about increased blood viscosity without actual clots, or about fibrin deposition inside blood vessels of individuals who suffer from chronic hypercoagulability.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 16, 2015 03:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

My research is not as tech as the others on this thread so I want to contribute this. My doctor now tests for fibrin after I showed her the inf.

What to do for fibrin or DVT? Dr Rogers recommends Nattokinase (soy), Boluoke (earthworms), Wobenzyme (enzymes maybe  Bromelain, Trypsin, and Rutoside or  pancreatin, papain, bromelain, trypsin, chymotrypsin and rutoside thihydrate, also for cancer), and Serrapeptase (silkworms) forDVT and hypertension. Also for digesting fibrin.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/sep2003_report_aas_01.ht Quote | Reply

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 05:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

Could always induce ketosis with Axona.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2731764/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 06:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

"Monocarboxylate transporter (MCT1) levels in brains of adult Long-Evans rats on a high-fat (ketogenic) diet were investigated using light and electron microscopic immunocytochemical methods. Rats given the ketogenic diet (91% fat and 9% protein) for up to 6 weeks had increased levels of the monocarboxylate transporter MCT1 (and of the glucose transporter GLUT1) in brain endothelial cells and neuropil compared to rats on a standard diet.

In ketonemic rats, electron microscopic immunogold methods revealed an8-foldgreater MCT1 labeling in the brain endothelial cells at 4 weeks."

Neurochem Int. 2001 May;38(6):519-27. Diet-induced ketosis increases monocarboxylate transporter (MCT1) levels in rat brain.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 06:23 PM                   Quote | Reply

"...One mechanism by which elevated circulating insulin levels may inhibit the uptake of ketone bodies is by reduction of monocarboxylate transporter proteins, such as monocarboxyate transporter 1 (MCT1). Consistent with this view, inflammation of the intestine has been associated with decreased levels of MCT1 [29] and increased reliance on glucose [30], suggesting that inflammation could induce a shift away from ketone body metabolism towards glucose."

Pharmacogenetic analysis of the effects of polymorphisms in APOE, IDE and IL1B on a ketone body based therapeutic on cognition in mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease; a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study Quote | Reply

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:08 PM                   Quote | Reply

Take a look at the glycolysis energy pathway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis#/media/File:Glycolys

A normal cell gains about 10% from glycolysis, while a cancer cell gains 50% (2 ATP per glucose).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w453ltcx4zhwixm/AAAjj0hBIu0NhD3St

If you look at the wiki pathway above, notice in the first 5 steps of glycolysis energy is lost (i.e ATP). It is only on the back end that 4 (2x2) ATP is regained. If some way were found to shut down this pathway a cancer cell would lose 50% of its energy supply while a normal cell would only lose 10%.

Consider what happens when starting from glucose. A normal cell will gain 2 ATP in glycolysis and 36 more ATP later. A cancer cell will gain 2 ATP in glycolysis and 2 later on.

Now think what would happen, if after spending 1 ATP  to go from glucose to glucose 6-phosphate, the phosphate group were released by an enzyme without keeping the ATP energy. One would be back to glucose after losing 1 ATP.

If this were a normal cell and the molecule then continued through glycolysis, 1 ATP would be generated  in glycolysis and 36 ATP later on. The cancer cell would then have 1 ATP and 2 ATP later on (a loss of 25%).

Now consider another glucose molecule that loses 1 ATP to glucose 6-Phosphate and then proceeds to lose another at fructose 1,6-bisphosphate and then continues forward. The cancer cell would then only break even with glycolysis and only generate 2 ATP per glucose (a loss of 50%).

Finally, if the energy losses in the two steps had happened twice through glycolysis, the cancer cell would actually lose 2 ATP for each glucose molecule in glycolysis and would make a net of 0 ATP on the whole energy pathway! The cancer cell would then be in an catastrophic energy crisis!

However, the normal cell, under the same circumstances would still generate 36 ATP per glucose molecule. This would likely have minimal if any influence on its viability.

Making 2 enzymes that "robbed" ATP in the glycolysis pathway could have a profound effect on cancer treatment. Every known human cell must undergo cellular respiration to survive.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Mar 17, 2015 07:28 AM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Skaran,

Thanks for your feedback. Of course your point is right. Cimetidine is wel known to "interact" with many. In general it is leading to higher blood concentrations of many components and as you said that includes Metformin.

Since I have my own challenges, I do not have the time to make things very specific and I do not expect others will do that. For me, the purpuse of discussions such as this is not to be highly specific on every aspect but instead is to create awarness. That is in my view the major purpuse.

Therefore, what I am doing around is to share information I came across and think that may be relevant for others and at the same time receive information from others that may be relevant for me.

On this line, I think all of us should further research any supplement or drug that we intend to administrate and see how that fits in our specific case. Offcourse, even in that case we will never know all the positive or negative interactions that may follow. On the other hand, due to the time limitations most of us have sometimes we may have to take some risks as well. Also, if we read the list of potentil interactions between drugs we may end up taking nearly nothing, which is not good as well. This is the dilema we all have, I think.

Coming back to your point, I do not take you comments in the wrong way - I actually value your comments very much.

Regarding CTC and CSC, that is specific to everybody who has cancer (if by that you mean circulating tumor cells and cancer stemm cells). CTCs can be found in the blood of anyone who has cancer, to my knowledge (and I have some statistics on that). Making sure that we reduce the chance of those leading to metastasis is highly important. This is why I reccomend to look into the components I mentioned earlier including Cimetidine. When I became aware of the power (and nearly no side effects) of Cimetidine, I was very happy and I hope this will help other as well.

Btw, lowering the intake of Metformin is not an issue. It is even better I think. Because with Cimetidine you can lower the intake of Metformin while the plasma level of Metformin will stay the same as when you were taking higher dose. And I guess this is your goal, i.e. keep a high plasma level of Metformin in order to reach all CTC/CSC as much as  possible.

I think cryoablation is very interesting and your very positive experience with that makes it even more interesting.

I agree with your view on radiation exposure specifically PET.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:45 PM                   Quote | Reply

I beg your pardon for an offtopic, but not only 3bp has been discussed here.

First I report the results of my experience with the vermox (mebendazole).

I took 600 mg a day for one week (the normal dose is 100 mg).

There were no side effects, but it didn't have effect on my prostate cancer: the PSA increased.

So I have discontinued this treatment.

I would like to discuss another matter and ask your advice.

It is known for more than 2 years, that the oncolytic virus can cure the mice from the prostate cancer: http://www.shef.ac.uk/news/nr/surfing-trojan-horses-bust-tum

The prostate specific oncolytic virus Ad[I/PPT-E1A] have been produced by the Baylor College laboratory in the USA on the request of the Swedish scientist prof. Magnus Essand.

I have contacted the laboratory, and they told me that it costs $2000 to produce the virus, but they need the permision from prof.Magnus Essand.

I have asked his permission and got the following answer: We are not going to produce any Ad[I/PPT-E1A] virus before the phase I clinical trial in the Netherlands has been finished. You do NOT have my consent to proceed at this moment.

It was a year ago, and I don't know what is going on with this trial (it has limited expectations, because it does not use the same method that cured the mice, that method packed the virus in macrophages to overcome the response from the immune system).

Now I have learned about another prostate-specific oncolytic virusrNDV, developed by the indian-born prof.Elanku maran Subbiah, that now works in the USA.

I have contacted him and got the following answer:

The prostate cancer virus is not in any clinical trials in U.S. or other countries.

The only way to get it is for an oncologist or hospital in U.S.A to get FDA permit for compassionate use.

I will be happy to work with them if they decide to take that path.

Is there any way for me to get the virus?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 17, 2015 01:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

Are you in a right to try state?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Tue Mar 17, 2015 01:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am living in another country, but I can get to any state, say Arizona.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 17, 2015 01:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

The Goldwater Institute in AZ explained the way the law works and what your have to do to me. Call them to get the particulars.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 17, 2015 01:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

Somewhere I think I saw that if you take the ketones it does not matter if there is a little sugar. Is that right?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 17, 2015 04:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

That is untrue. It's your life or sugar. That's your choice.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 17, 2015 04:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

OK I found it. Also the article on Mito DCA says

The orphan drug dichloroacetate (DCA) is a mitochondrial kinase inhibitor that has the ability to show such characteristics. However, its molecular form shows poor uptake and bioavailability and limited ability to reach its target mitochondria. Here, we describe a targeted molecular scaffold for construction of a multiple DCA loaded compound

Therefore, AC-1202, a form of medium chain triglycerides (MCTs), was developed to safely elevate serum ketone bodies even in the presence of carbohydrate in the diet. MCTs were chosen for this study due to their safety profile [28], and long historical use in lipid malabsorption disorders and ketogenic diets [29]. Due to the unique physical properties of AC-1202, it is metabolized differently from the more common long chain triglycerides (LCT) [30]. If sufficient amounts of AC-1202 are consumed, a mild state of ketosis can be induced without modification of the diet. In a pilot study of mild to moderate AD patients, induction of ketosis by AC-1202 rapidly improved

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2731764/

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 17, 2015 04:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry I should have mentioned the source (I posted it!).

I wonder if the therapeutic dosing range for ketosis is the same when treating Alzheimer's and cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 17, 2015 04:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

I wonder about sugar because no matter what you will have blood sugar so maybe it is just how high.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 17, 2015 05:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

Though it ketone dependent the way it works is: Glucose(mmol)/ketone(mmol)=Keto zone e.g. If glucose is 71 mg/dl(on the meter). And bloods ketone is 4.0 (on the meter) Divide 71 by 18 to get the mmol. That means the glucose is 3.94mmol, you divide that by 4(the blood ketone) that will give you .98 If it's less that 1 then your in the Keto Zone. The formula is: Glucose measurement in mmol ________________________ __=1.0 or below Ketone measurement in mmol You can only get here by doing the following. Eating 1g of protein per kilo of your weight and no more than 12 g of carbs per day.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 17, 2015 05:24 PM                   Quote | Reply

This program won't let me write the formula correctly.

I'll try it in words. You divide you glucose meter number by 18, that is your glucose in mmol.

Then you divide that by your meter ketone number. If the result is less the 1.0 you are in the keto zone.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 17, 2015 05:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

It seems AC-1202 acheives Ketone levels in the sub mM range. Target range in cancer appears to be above 1-2 mM.

"Because the ketogenic diet (KD) is difficult to prepare and follow, and effectiveness of KB treatment in certain patients may be enhanced by raising plasma KB levels to ≥2 mM, KB esters, such as 1,3-butanediol monoester of βHB and glyceryl-tris-3-hydroxybutyrate, have been devised.  When administered orally in controlled dosages, these esters can produce plasma KB levels comparable to those achieved by the most rigorous KD, thus providing a safe, convenient, and versatile new approach to the study and potential treatment of a variety of diseases, including epilepsy, AD,.."

J Lipid Res.2014 Sep;55(9):1818-26. doi: 10.1194/jlr.R046599. Epub 2014 Mar 5.

Ketone body therapy: from the ketogenic diet to the oral administration of ketone ester.

(AC-1202) "when subjects were given a full dose (20 grams). Average post-dose BHB values in the AC-1202 group were 0.36 mM on Day 45 and 0.39 mM on Day 90, both significantly different from Placebo group (p < 0.0001)"

Study of the ketogenic agent AC-1202 in mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter trial

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 17, 2015 07:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

I will have to spend some time to digest this information. Thanks

Page 33

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

I would be very interested to know what Watson recommended as a treatment protocol for DCA /MitoDCA /3-BP / nanoparticle 3-BP / metformin / ketogenic etc..

This supercomputer might now be considered the undisputed cancer doctor in the world.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by kccoc on Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:52 AM                   Quote | Reply

If this "prostate-specific oncolytic virusrNDV, developed by the indian-born prof.Elanku " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">prof.Elanku maran Subbiah" is similar to "Newcastle Disease Virus", then Dr Nesselhut may be a doctor in Germany that routinely prescribe this to his cancer patients. (www.immune-therapy.net/en/literatur.php)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:39 AM                   Quote | Reply

Thank you,kccocfor this information.

The rNDV is the prostate-specific recombinant Newcastle Disease Virus.

There are also modifications of this virus for other cancers.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:53 AM                   Quote | Reply

Yes, Dr Nesselhut is one of if not the best in immunotheraphy in Germany. Since recently he is using a great (but also dangerous) treatment strategy. That is the combination of Dentritic Cells vaccine with an anti PD1 vaccine. It has huge potential but also potential side effects, i.e. it may trigger an auto immune disease. If I would have no other options I would clearly go for this one.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Wed Mar 18, 2015 02:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

The Mito DCA sounds good. My doctor can get and do DCA here but I wonder if the Mito has to go through trials or we could get it at the compounding phrmacy that will supply the regular DCA? Anyone have an idea?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Wed Mar 18, 2015 05:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

Danielus, I am afraid of such treatments. I have tried the GCMAF therapy. If had slowed the cancer growth, but an auto immune disease has developed. My back and neck were in pain, because of inflamation. It seems to me, that the cancer-specific oncolytic virus is safer, but I may be wrong.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Mar 18, 2015 06:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes Felix, I think this should be tryied only if no option since the outcome of the treatment can be either strongly positive or strongly negative ... in anycase Dr Nesselhut uses various other traetments so he may have access to the oncolytic virus as well. The drawback is that he may be a bit expensive, but the quality of the treatment is some of the highest from what I heard.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Wed Mar 18, 2015 06:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

Btw Felix, what was your source of GcMAF? European, Israelian or Japanese?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Wed Mar 18, 2015 08:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

I had ordered it from the UK.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Mar 18, 2015 09:54 PM                   Quote | Reply

At the current rate of progress it might take another 15 years before 3-BP made it to market. By the time it ever did all the new formulations would likely be much more effective.

Mito-DCA might be lucky to be approved during this century.

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Page 34

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:00 PM                   Quote | Reply

The Israeli version isn't sold to the public, its in a Phase I. The one from Japan is high dose and the one from the UK may not be sold anymore (MHRA problems). I wonder if you could use this with an oncolytic virus?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Thu Mar 19, 2015 01:17 PM                   Quote | Reply

Jcancom if the doctors can get DCA now why can they not get Mito DCA?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 19, 2015 01:44 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am not sure that it would be completely within the rules of the FDA to reformulate DCA into Mito-DCA without going through a lengthy clinical trial process to ensure the new formulation were safe and effective. Such a process could take decades and cost an extraordinary amount of money. Perhaps this is what is holding up the 3-BP trial. If the 3-BP trial started and then a new forumulation was found (e.g. with β-Cyclodextrin), it might be necessary to start all over again with the clinical trials.

This would be consistent with how the FDA has managed similar such developments in the past. Consider for example their ruling on 23andme. 23andme was offering its customers over 100 hundred health reports on SNPs from their genechip. The FDA recently ruled that 23andme would have to go through a verification process on each health report that they reported on. This despite the fact that the gene chip they use is highly accurate and widely used in the scientific community. Such a verification process would be prohibitively expenseive.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Mar 19, 2015 03:30 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yes James, the UK version may not be sold anymore. I have seen recently on the website of the Anticancerfunds organisation that even a paper of the Japanese profesor (Yamamoto) who first came up with the idea of GcMAF, was actualy retracted. There are many questions marks related to the effectivness of GcMAF and is good to hear that Felix had some result of GcMAF even if not positive. Btw, since recently there is also a GcMAF version produced in Germany.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Mar 19, 2015 03:35 PM                   Quote | Reply

Recently, I came across a treatment based on Diflunisal. It seems that it has huge potential. Anyone hear of this treatment?

Have a look at this abstract and please let me know what you think: http://www.medicdebate.org/node/978

Btw, I think we are shifting from 3BP but when there are relevant news/info we will come back on it.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Thu Mar 19, 2015 04:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hallwang clinic in Germany has some very interesting treatment on this line. Different, yet relevant - it is called Supportive Oligonucleotide Technique (SOT) and is provided by RGCC. I heard thet have good results with the treatment. Here is someone who shortly describes that:  https://bisforbananascisforcancer.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/h

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 20, 2015 05:24 AM                   Quote | Reply

Do you know anyone personaly who had good results with GcMAF/Goleic?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Fri Mar 20, 2015 01:03 PM                   Quote | Reply

There are two groups on facebook, one called GcMAF and the other GcMAF cancer and they are independent, its likely it would work better with other things like PDT http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16794636 an oncolytic virus or low dose radiotherapy

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 20, 2015 04:12 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks James - I went on the FB page for GcMAF but is hard to find info there - it takes a lot of time and as a first look I can not realy find somebody who has real responses. But maybe you found some positive cases?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 20, 2015 04:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hey guys, here is a question to all: Do you know what is the mechanism that triggers tremour/shivering after anticancer treatments?

It seems that this happens when administrating Salinomycin IV, Curcumin IV (with DMSO) and even 3BP IV. The paper on Salinomycin reports a 30-60min mild tremor after administrating the IV solution as the only side effect.

I am very curious to hear what is your oppinion. Would it be Tumor Lysis Syndrome? Or something else?

Andrew, have you seen such reaction in you patients?

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Page 35

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Fri Mar 20, 2015 05:15 PM                   Quote | Reply

I think, (so don't quote me on this) side effects of this nature fall under Cerebellar Disorders.

Here is a site that covers most of this. Hope you can find what you're looking for here.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/cerebellar-disorders

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Fri Mar 20, 2015 05:34 PM                   Quote | Reply

Also you might like to look at this:

http://www.uic.edu/classes/pmpr/pmpr652/Final/bressler/neuro

and this

Salinomycin

An epidemic of salinomycin toxicosis was reported in the United Kingdom and the Netherlands in a large number of cats that ate food contaminated with salinomycin, an ionophore coccidiostat used in chickens. The salinomycin caused a severe, acute, progressive polyneuropathy. Reported clinical signs included various degrees of lower motor neuron signs, including paraparesis ( r efers to partial (-paresis) or complete (-plegia) loss of voluntary motor function in the pelvic limbs) progressing to tetraparesis (Weakness of all four extremities), generalized muscle wasting, dysphagia (difficulty swallowing) , and dyspnea (shortness of breath). Cats that ate the contaminated food early on were often euthanized, but, once the cause became clear, most cats recovered after changing to non-contaminated food and receiving supportive care. Further reading Salinomycin-induced polyneuropathy in cats: morphologic and epidemiologic data. Vet Pathol  1999;36:152-156. Quote | Reply
 * 1) Pakozdy A, Challande-Kathman I, Doherr M, et al. Retrospective study of salinomycin toxicosis in 66 cats.  Vet Med Int 2010:147142.
 * 2) van der Linde-Sipman JS, van den Ingh TS, Van Nes JJ, et al.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 20, 2015 07:52 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks for the links skaran. What is interesting to see is that elements that have very strong anti-cancer activity (i.e. 3BP IV, Salinomycin IV, Curcumin IV) may leed to such side effects. So I am wondering if there is something more behind this side effect - a specific intra cellular mechanism that also leeds to anti-cancer effects.

(There are many people that experience this when using e.g. Curcumin IV and DMSO IV and after that they have typically clear TLS symthoms.)

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Mar 21, 2015 05:36 AM                   Quote | Reply

Doxocycline inhibits mitochondria in cancer cells. Will shift metabolism towards a more glycolytic phenotype with an increased lactate secretion. With this, it may work very well with 3BP.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Mar 21, 2015 06:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

A nice one:

Inhibition of human lung cancer cell proliferation and survival by wine http://www.cancerci.com/content/14/1/6



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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sat Mar 21, 2015 09:28 AM                   Quote | Reply

at 330mg taken orally i noticed a very mild finger or hand tremor also elevated blood presure by about 10 points on the high end

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Sat Mar 21, 2015 09:36 AM                   Quote | Reply

sorry thats 330 mg salinomycin ,

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:22 AM                   Quote | Reply

howard, i guess the purity of the salinomycin you take is around 12%? In that case you take about 0.5mg/kg?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am surprised that MitoQ (as an antioxidant) synergized with 2-deoxy. (Should not an antioxidant reduce cancer destruction?). Perhaps MitoQ could be combined with 3-BP?

MitoQ is freely available for purchase on the internet.

Cancer Res. 2012 May 15;72(10):2634-44. doi: 10.1158/0008-5472.CAN-11-3928. Epub 2012 Mar 19. Mitochondria-targeted drugs synergize with 2-deoxyglucose to trigger breast cancer cell death.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

Wat do you think about finding out what the active transporters are on the mitochondria? If the MitoQ will assist maybe finding out what they receive would be interesting. Yesterday my onc dr said they are mostly acticive not passive transporters and a double membrane on the mito unlike the cell membrane.

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Page 36

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sat Mar 21, 2015 09:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

Very cool! X-Ray PDT!

http://cen.acs.org/articles/93/web/2015/03/Nanoparticle-Take

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

I suppose that I'm stating the obvious here but, I hope everyone knows about takeing B1 (Thiamin) for tremors. It's water soluable (like Vit C) and you can take as much as you need to help combat tremors. I take:

http://smile.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Vitamin-100mg-Tablets/dp/B00022DNVY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426989501&sr=8-1&keywords=source+naturals+B1

I use this brand because there are no digestable carbs used as fillers and it doesn't add to my carbs on the R-KD.

This brand has 250mg per tablet and allows me to adust the daily amount as needed. Right now I take 750mg BID (that's twice a day) with my DCA which can also cause tremors. But I know of people who take 1000mg BID who are on higher doses of DCA, to control their tremors. It has a nuroprotective property.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by BRETTIN on Sun Mar 22, 2015 02:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

This paper may be of interest ... MitoTempo and MitoQ appear to be have the same effect.

http://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(14)00527-0

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Mar 22, 2015 02:32 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am very worried about what might happen if Mito-3-BP were synethsized.

Mito drugs can enter any cell due to the charge gradient and then head for the mitochondria where they can concentrate hundreds of times over.

What would happen in a normal cell if 3-BP entered the mitochondria and shut down OXPHOS. Interesting that Mito-DCA seemed successful in vitro.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 02:47 PM                   Quote | Reply

We have not seen shivering with either 3bp or curcumin IV's. The only shivering seen is with DCA. I think that because DCA is not as specific as 3bp that the shivering is from a toxicity related loss of normal mitochondria. As I have stated on the Dayspring website " Their [DCA and 2DOG] chemical structures do not provide for specificity to cancer cells.  In fact, they enter more normal cells other than cancer cells and harm normal cellular function."

It is not TLS because there is no corresponding elevation of uric acid, etc.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Sun Mar 22, 2015 03:40 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks Andrew. The shivering i am reffering to is not a DCA-like one. The one I am reffering to takes place imidiatly after the IV and stais between 15 and 30 min. I have seen it multiple times and it is known at the clinics in Germany to occur specifically when combining high enough dose of curcumin and DMSO. After that the patient feels typical TLS and I expect that if the uric acid, etc. would be measured there will be some elevation detected.

Nevertheless, it is already interesting to know that you never seen this.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Sun Mar 22, 2015 05:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

It seems to be helping some on there. I think GcMAF would work well with PDT http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2063270/ Then there are certain toll-like receptors http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360370/  and/or G-CSF/GMCSF http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2363378/  It seems local Hyperthermia induces heat-shock proteins which could work with it too

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Sun Mar 22, 2015 06:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

Why not try and improve SDT? http://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp/gan/pdf/2004-sonodynamic-thera http://www.saisei-mirai.or.jp/gan/pdf/Wang3BreastCases.pdf

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Sun Mar 22, 2015 06:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

Yeah, that has been pointed out to me. I am not sure whether SDT would be as simple as X-Ray PDT (could call it XDT).

X-Ray therapy seems really simple, there is no obvious reason to me why it would not work. Simply, inject a photochemical and do  low dose whole body X-Ray. This would be very simple and hospital are already equiped with the right hardware. X-Rays do penetrate the entire body. This technology could roll out fast. About all they need is a targetting mechanism.

I am not sure with SDT. There might need to be some complex focussing needed.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:27 AM                   Quote | Reply

Have you seen this?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130603090547.ht

I think that the drug co. wasn't making enough money to produce this (it's still under patent) and is creating world wide shortages to bring the price up.

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Page 37

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 23, 2015 02:03 PM                   Quote | Reply

skaran i found an ice cream sweetened with these. Do you know the amount of carbs and would it affect your diet? Are sugar alcohol sweeteners like erythritol and xylitol good alternatives to sugar?

Erythritol, xylitol, and other sugar alcohols have been used for decades to sweeten chewing gum, candy, fruit spreads, toothpaste, cough syrup, and other products. Newer, cheaper ways to make sugar alcohols from corn, wood, and other plant materials, along with their sugar-like taste, are fueling their use in a growing array of foods. Erythritol has even begun cropping up in beverages, on its own or combined with stevia in the “natural” calorie-free sweeteners Truvia™ and PureVia™. Other sugar alcohols you may see listed on food labels are mannitol, sorbitol, and hydrogenated starch hydrolysates. Sugar alcohols taste like sugar, with 50 to 70 percent of the sweetness of sucrose (table sugar). The body doesn’t break down or absorb sugar alcohols as easily as sucrose—you get four calories from a teaspoon of table sugar compared with 0.2 calories from erythritol and 2.4 calories from xylitol. There is a price to pay for the poor absorption of sugar alcohols: At high levels of intake, sugar alcohols can have a laxative effect. Erythritol’s manufacturers, however, say that erythritol is somewhat better absorbed than other sugar alcohols, and is therefore less likely to cause digestive discomfort.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 23, 2015 02:44 PM                   Quote | Reply

Brain Bender: Metabolic Manipulation: Alternative Cancer ...

brainbender.blogspot.com /2013/.../metabolic-manipulation-alternative.ht...

Together, the medicines, herbs, and vitamins listed above should do two things. First, a low-fructose diet together with Metformin and DCA will serve to inhibit both gluconeogenesis and anerobic glycolysis and force cancer cells into lipolysis. While we want the force the cancer into a ketogenic state, a ketogenic diet and dehydration are discouraged because scientists believe that cancer cells may thrive on lactic acid and ketones. That said, this first strategy should force the cancer cells to depend primarily on lipolysis for energy.

Next, iron chelation is added to inhibit ROS formation. Antioxidants like Vitamin C, E, Co-enzyme Q10, and Cumin are added to prevent remaining ROS oxidative damage to surrounding tissues. Also, anti-inflammatory and immune modulating agents such as aspirin, cimetidine could be added to reduce inflammation and boost cellular and humeral immunity. All together, cancer cells should not be left with any alternative energy alternatives. Then, at that point, cancer cells would turn cannibalistic and should undergo autophagy.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 23, 2015 02:49 PM                   Quote | Reply

Ketones and lactate increase cancer cell “stemness”, driving recurrence, metastasis and poor clinical outcome in breast cancer

Achieving personalized medicine via metabolo-genomics

Ubaldo E Martinez-Outschoorn, Marco Prisco, [...], and Michael P Lisanti

Additional article information

Abstract

Previously, we showed that high-energy metabolites (lactate and ketones) “fuel” tumor growth and experimental metastasis in an in vivo xenograft model, most likely by driving oxidative mitochondrial metabolism in breast cancer cells

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Mon Mar 23, 2015 03:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

You can read more on this. Do Ketones Fuel Cancer? The Low-Carb Experts Respond http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/do-ketones-fuel-cancer-th

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Mon Mar 23, 2015 03:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Interesting link but it is confusing to know if a Keto diet is helpful and under what circumstances.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 23, 2015 04:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am also seriously puzzeled about this subject. The link from James indeed helps, but here is another link to add to this debate: http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/dr-gonzalez-dismantles-ketoge

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Mon Mar 23, 2015 05:06 PM                   Quote | Reply

It has to be calorie restricted with low to mod protein. Effects of a ketogenic diet on the quality of life in 16 patients with advanced cancer: A pilot trial http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3157418/ Also with hyperbaric oxygen it seems to work better http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23755243

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by james-peters on Mon Mar 23, 2015 05:08 PM                   Quote | Reply

A calorie restricted ketogenic diet is very different from the Atkins diet. It seems Dr Gonzalez is confusing the two

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 23, 2015 06:00 PM                   Quote | Reply

I agree, "restricted" is the keyword here. In the end I believe that any route that we feel will help us is the best.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 23, 2015 06:26 PM                   Quote | Reply

James, the reference http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3157418/ is not that impressive ...

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Page 38

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Mon Mar 23, 2015 06:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

Btw, James what do you think about Myo-InositolTrisPyroPhosphate as an alternative to hyperbaric oxygen?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by kccoc on Mon Mar 23, 2015 08:21 PM                   Quote | Reply

In one of the experiment mentioned by Dr Seyfried in his book (pg 293), he reported “The results show that DER (Dietary Energy Restricted) significantly reduces tumor growth whether the mice are fed a standard high carbohydrate diet (SD) or a high fat, low carbohydrate KD (Ketogenic Diet)” and on the same page, “Our results show that brain tumor growth is influenced more by diet energy content than by diet nutrient composition”.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 23, 2015 08:31 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sugar alcohol's are a no no. Even in tooth paste they raise your boos sugar. You call find this information in Ellem Davis ebook. You can also find this information one the Charlie foundation website as well as recipes and how to's http://www.charliefoundation.org Hope this helps,

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 23, 2015 08:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

This is incorrect. Cancer CAN NOT grow on ketones. Some cancers seem to use oxygen, however it is 'reparation uncoupled' meaning it can't use oxygen for energy production.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Mon Mar 23, 2015 08:43 PM                   Quote | Reply

Please excuse all the errors in my post. It seems that this program doesn't post well from a mobile device. I'll wait to get home and post on my computer next time.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Mon Mar 23, 2015 09:05 PM                   Quote | Reply

Med Hypotheses. 2015 Mar;84(3):162-8. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2014.11.002. Epub 2014 Dec 10.

Starvation of cancer via induced ketogenesis and severe hypoglycemia.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 09:14 PM                   Quote | Reply

http://archive.diabetes.ca/files/SugarAlcohols--Wolever--CJD

The above link is from the Canadian Journal of Diabetes: "Neither intravenous (IV) nor oral administration of sorbitol, lactitol or xylitol in normal subjects resulted in any appreciable rise in PG or insulin (16,17,19).  [PG = plasma glucose] . Similarly, in subjects with diabetes, neither xylitol nor sorbitol caused any acute rise in PG (19-21)."

There are still issues with xylitol and erithrytol. Xylitol contains 60% of the calories of table sugar and can cause distress (gas, bloating, diarrhea). It does not have fructose.

The Glycemic Index (GI) of xylitol is 7 as published by the Univ of Sydney  http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php?num=2481&ak=  As a comparison kale has a GI between 2 and 4.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:33 AM                   Quote | Reply

Cell Cycle. 2011 Apr 15;10(8):1271-86. doi: 10.4161/cc.10.8.15330.

Ketones and lactate increase cancer cell "stemness," driving recurrence, metastasis and poor clinical outcome in breast cancer: achieving personalized medicine via Metabolo-Genomics.

Martinez-Outschoorn UE1, Prisco M, Ertel A, Tsirigos A, Lin Z, Pavlides S, Wang C, Flomenberg N, Knudsen ES, Howell A, Pestell RG, Sotgia F, Lisanti MP.

Author information

Abstract

Previously, we showed that high-energy metabolites (lactate and ketones) "fuel" tumor growth and experimental metastasis in an in vivo xenograft model, most likely by driving oxidative mitochondrial metabolism in breast cancer cells. To mechanistically understand how these metabolites affect tumor cell behavior, here we used genome-wide transcriptional profiling. Briefly, human breast cancer cells (MCF7) were cultured with lactate or ketones, and then subjected to transcriptional analysis (exon-array). Interestingly, our results show that treatment with these high-energy metabolites increases the transcriptional expression of gene profiles normally associated with "stemness," including genes upregulated in embryonic stem (ES) cells. Similarly, we observe that lactate and ketones promote the growth of bonafide ES cells, providing functional validation. The lactate- and ketone-induced "gene signatures" were able to predict poor clinical outcome (including recurrence and metastasis) in a cohort of human breast cancer patients. Taken together, our results are consistent with the idea that lactate and ketone utilization in cancer cells promotes the "cancer stem cell" phenotype, resulting in significant decreases in patient survival. One possible mechanism by which these high-energy metabolites might induce stemness is by increasing the pool of Acetyl-CoA, leading to increased histone acetylation, and elevated gene expression. Thus, our results mechanistically imply that clinical outcome in breast cancer could simply be determined by epigenetics and energy metabolism, rather than by the accumulation of specific "classical" gene mutations. We also suggest that high-risk cancer patients (identified by the lactate/ketone gene signatures) could be treated with new therapeutics that target oxidative mitochondrial metabolism, such as the anti-oxidant and "mitochondrial poison" metformin. Finally, we propose that this new approach to personalized cancer medicine be termed "Metabolo-Genomics," which incorporates features of both 1) cell metabolism and 2) gene transcriptional profiling. Importantly, this powerful new approach directly links cancer cell metabolism with clinical outcome, and new therapeutic strategies for inhibiting the TCA cycle and mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation in cancer cells.

PMID: 21512313 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3117136 Free PMC Article

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Tue Mar 24, 2015 04:16 AM                   Quote | Reply

Genelle, there are cancer cells that are not producing their energy via glycolysis. If you take those type of cels as a basis for experiments than you may be able to get to these results. In that case, Metformin that would inhinit mitochondria will work indeed. This is what they probably did in the experiments in your reference.

So I think the key is to make sure we address both options, i.e. production of energy via mitochondria and that via glycolisis. The great thing is that 3BP is doing both.

If I would have to choose, I would start with glyco first because that not only produces energy for the specific cancer cell but also produces fuel (lactate) for other cancer cells. Besides, it also produces the protonated environment around the tumor that inhibits the immune system as well.

Anyway, what I take from this discussion is that the minimum we need to do to kill cancer is to:

- reduce calorie intake & reduce glucose intake - add glycolysis inhibitors (3BP, etc.) - add mitochondrial poison (Metformin, etc.)

Btw, if the cancer is not visible on PET there is no point for KD. I guess is not even indicated.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:18 AM                   Quote | Reply

It says ketones fuel tumor growth. So are you saying the cancer cells being fueled are doing aerobic respiration? 3BP as I understand slips into the cancer cell because it mimics something else the receptor will accept. Do the OXPHOX cells show up more or the same as the glycolic cells on the PET? It is just worrisome that they say ketones feed cancer in some cases.

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Page 39

by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:37 AM                   Quote | Reply

It is probably best not to think in absolute terms with cancer.

Some cancer cells use lactate, some do not. Some might use ketones, others not.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:38 AM                   Quote | Reply

I will do the things you mention but a KETO diet is difficult to do and one hopes it does not fuel cancer. I wonder if doing everything else and just keeping the carbs low would be as good.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:52 AM                   Quote | Reply

I'm afraid that a low carb diet won't give you any results. To put your cancer on the "edge", you must have low glucose blood numbers and high ketones. I thought it would be too difficult for me to do this. But after seeing that an epileptic 2 year old can do this for years, I was embarrassed not to try. The first 3 weeks were hardest. Getting off sugar and carbs was one of the biggest challenges of my life. Now it's nothing. I don't miss it at all.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

The article I posted from Medical Hypotheses suggests that a treatment regimen of High Ketones, severe hypoglycemia with glucose perfusion to the brain might be an effective cancer therapy.

It would need considerable medical oversight, though.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 01:21 PM                   Quote | Reply

Cancer cell CAN NOT use Ketones

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 01:58 PM                   Quote | Reply

you only the the oversight to start you off. After working with a dietician for about 2 months, I was able to continue on my own. It has the same learning curve as someone diagnosed with diabetes. You need to learn the basics, learn to track your meals and learn to record your blood glucose and ketones. It's a job when you start, but I don't think about it much a year and a half later.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

The extreme level of hypoglycemia suggested in the article might require an intensive care unit level of medical oversight.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:28 PM                   Quote | Reply

I did not think that cancer cells could use ketones either. The Cancer Cell article has made me unsure.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 02:42 PM                   Quote | Reply

This has been shown ad nauseum in every research paper I have read. Even when it is shown that some cancer cells do use oxygen they can not metabolize it for energy. Usually cancer cells that don't metabolize glucose in an agressive way are so slow growing that usually the patient dies before the cancer can get him.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 03:01 PM                   Quote | Reply

Dear Jcancom  please read the following if you are unsure. It took me a little research to find out what this is all about.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/kg.

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Page 40

RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 04:13 PM                   Quote | Reply

One thing Metformin does is stop the recycling of lactic acid through the Cori cycle back into glucose. So giving Metformin, berberines, etc is to reduce the lactic acid production into glucose by the liver. Cancer feeds mainly on glucose (but also glutamine) and so reduction of glucose levels is key to contol of cancer proliferation.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 24, 2015 04:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

that is what my docs have said. I wonder if whatever amount of blood sugar there is  on a KETO diet goes to cancer or normal cells?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 04:39 PM                   Quote | Reply

Normal cells get first dibs they are running optimally on ketones especially in the brain and cancer cells on the edge can't access because they are on the verge of apoptosis.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 08:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

I did not realize how much of a heated debate ketogenic diet as a cancer treatment was.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ketogenic-diets-for-canc

Nor how chemically similar DCA appears to be to 3-BP.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-latest-chapter-in-th

Given the remarkable success that has been demonstrated in published studies with 3-BP in terminal cancer patients, I do not understand what scientifically legitimate criticism would hold against the broad concept of energy deprivation in cancer, as envisioned by Warburg 80years ago.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Tue Mar 24, 2015 08:36 PM                   Quote | Reply

DCA is easy to get and cheap.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by skaran on Tue Mar 24, 2015 09:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

I am now convinced that though there are exceptionally selfless doctors and researchers out there, there is also a multi-billion dollar industry and chemo cathedrals who are very nervous about all the cheap metabolic therapies coming out. These are tiny molecules and their efficacy is affected when they are tampered with. They are desperate to find a patentable delivery systems or time release formulas so that they can charge a fortune for it. The FDA isn't helping either. 3BP cost $271 for 50g (with shipping) and DCA costs $300 for 100g (with shipping).

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

All of this conspiracy thinking is very surprising to me. The doctors in my family all work in the context of small town practice. They live, work, and are active members of their broader community. Even though they are highly respected (and compensated) members of their community, they could not (and would not) knowingly withhold effective metabolic cancer treatments from their patients.

Doing so would have considerable implications for their safety and the safety of their children.

A very different mentality might apply to doctors living within large annoymous cities in gated communities composed mainly of other professionals.

From this context, it is startling to me that 15 years after the publication of the first articles on 3-BP there is still such an enormous uncertainty concerning its use in treating cancer.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by kccoc on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:39 AM                   Quote | Reply

In today’s cancer treatment context; maybe it is probably that;

“Effective” cancer treatments = clinical trials = $billion dollar price tag = funded largely by for profit investors = demanding high return for taking high risks = financial protection and financial endeavours to encourage such risk taking.

Until this equation is fully played out, there might be very little for any doctors, community based or anonymously city based, to “knowingly withhold” - there is simply no (approved) "effective" treament (approved) for them to  “know”, and therefore nothing for them to “withhold” from their patients.

Maybe unless and until, "effective" cancer treatment simply = to (just) patients survivor and well being?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:41 AM                   Quote | Reply

The way things are set up and regulated accounts for a lot of these problems. It is kind of a herd mentality. I am a very strong individual and always manage to show people my uniquness and they respond to that. The good news is all the holistic doctors and NDs that are now helping us. I have WONDERFUL doctors a DO, 2 NDs, an MD, and an oncologist. I had to show them I would partner with them and they are all so kind and smart. I think a lot of people just go to a doctor and expect the doctor to do everything. You people on this site all take responsibility for your illness so you will have a better result.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 01:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Quack Watch is not what is known as cutting edge medicine. It functions to put down any alternative medicine that is not sanctioned by the FDA and managed by pharmaceutical companies. The author of the aformentioned paper worked for MSK. MSK just got viciously back handed by Ralph Moss in his 2014 book "Doctored Results" about how MSK suppressed information on Laetrile. MSK has a heavy attorney presence and you can be sure if anything were not true about MSK fraudulently suppressing Laetrile information there would be a lawsuit. As of today MSK is as quiet as a church mouse. So as for Quack Watch, there is an old adage if you are pointing a finger at someone you have three more pointing at you. Another way to put it, if you do the opposite of Quack Watch you'll probably be doing the right thing.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Wed Mar 25, 2015 01:33 PM                   Quote | Reply

These links do not connect

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Wed Mar 25, 2015 07:37 PM                   Quote | Reply

Please everyone let's stay away from the long lists of urls something isn't right with it.

Very exciting news! Prescience will present at the Target Cancer Metabolism meeting in Boston in May. Might this be a good time for them to annouince the start of their 3-BP trial?

http://cancermetabolism-summit.com/

https://login.live.com/login.srf?wa=wsignin1.0&rpsnv=11&

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:35 AM                   Quote | Reply

Weren't the doses used IV on the order of ug/kg in published case reports for salinomycin? Is HowardA okay?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Thu Mar 26, 2015 01:22 PM                   Quote | Reply

I looked at the link for "sciencebasedmedicine" and it was written by David Gorsky, a surgical oncologist, which he does not think important evidently to state. Here is a link about Gorsky ttp://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-ph

One thing to be aware of is why people are writing what they are writing. Gorsky appears to have a conflict of interest in debunking the benefits of a ketogenic diet. While a ketogenic diet has benefits it is like all things in that a great variety of treatments is beneficial. This is in contrast to a poster on aforementioned the sciencebasedmedicine article:   "WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

June 25, 2014 at 8:30 am

Not to mention the cancer ketogenic diet is only 600 calories per day and you’re missing out on some truly delicious foods – fruits, ice cream, bread, pizza, pasta, cake, cookies, potatoes, etc."

So the contrast between alternative cancer treatment's dietary issues and other ideas is quite clear.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Thu Mar 26, 2015 01:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

The problem with science is they believe you can isolate a variable in a complex system like a human being. Here is the assumption this doctor is making.

The problem is, as both our very own David Krollpointed out, we don’t know for sure if the DCA was responsible for this effect. As a cancer researcher, I can’t say whether the regressions observed were due to DCA, although the regression of paraventricular masses in patient #1 and the regression observed in patient #5 are certainly fairly suggestive (at least to me) of an anti-tumor effect due to DCA alone. The only side effect Michelakis reported was a reversible change in peripheral nerve function.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Thu Mar 26, 2015 04:50 PM                   Quote | Reply

Gorski discusses the ketogenic diet http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ketogenic-diets-for-canc but fails to acknowledge that the two kids with glioblastomas lived much longer then he stated. In fact they appear to have been lost to hospital follow-up after 10 and 15 years respectively.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 26, 2015 07:51 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry everyone for waving a red flag. I just wanted to make note of the other side of the argument and carry forward. I really appreciate being an anonymous poster on this thread and not feel as though I have personally and emotionally committed to any given position.

I know when one is out in the real world it becomes inevitable to become a true believer in something even when the evidence starts to go against you.

My current position with regards to 3-BP is that given my best objective assessment I would say that it is one of the best cancer treatments I have ever come across. If I were now crippled with terminal cancer I would seek treatment with it. Further, I would feel ethically obligated for the many others that would face cancer in the future to give it a try. I cannot comprehend why so many people have died of cancer and their deaths have in no way help us advance to a cure. I would want my life to have meant something to someone else.

With regards to DCA, the recent article on IV DCA treatment clearly showed that DCA can be of some benefit to cancer patients.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Thu Mar 26, 2015 08:11 PM                   Quote | Reply

What's this opinion based on though? Some rat studies and one teenager with some type of hepatoceullar malignancy. I would have thought there would be some anecdotes out there now from the alternative and other clinics using 3BP obtained from where ever.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Thu Mar 26, 2015 08:30 PM                   Quote | Reply

Clinically, we have seen one pancreatic's CA 19-9 tumor markers decrease 20% per week (60% in three weeks). He maintained a ravenous appetite, his energy and did not go bald. Does not sound like chemotherapy or radiation. While this is one anecdotal case I do not see this happening without 3bp. I do not think that a program that does not include 3bp will have as good of an outcome as is possible.

Hope this helps.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Thu Mar 26, 2015 08:32 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sure, you got me.

This thread has endlessly discussed the only two published cases of 3-BP in terminal cancer: the liver cancer patient and the metastatic melanoma patient (Chin J Cancer. 2014 Jul;33(7):356-64).

The FDA has granted two orphan drug designations for 3-BP (not completely sure about the exact legal wording they use for this). They also granted authorization for a clinical trial with 3-BP to begin almost 2 years ago.

There are also several clinics mentioned on this thread that have been using 3-BP.

This is fairly thin evidence.

However, if only some of the millions of terminal cancer had stepped up and took a risk with it we would not be in the ridiculous position of being 15 years out from the first published research on 3-BP and still have no clear idea whether it actually works.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:19 PM                   Quote | Reply

So, we have a clinic in Colombia using 3BP with salinomycin, and another clinic in the USA claiming to be treating patients, though there are no MDs there.

No protocols are being published, no results. One press release from Colombia. Not much to be encouraged about really.

How is howardA getting on? He hasn't posted since he took what seems to be an enormous dose of salinomycin.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:50 AM                   Quote | Reply

Critical thinking is rare and common sense is not common.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by howardA on Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:43 AM                   Quote | Reply

thanks for the concern but howard is still feeling fine. marker #s are up to where they were before (1975), but we will see where they go from here. still taking  the salinomycin  . trying to stay on an every other day cycle. with zinc back on the off day/s. there are some slight hand tremors but they go away several hours after taking, this could be to an  increase in blood pressure. at this point nothing that i've been taking is giving me any issues.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by FelixShmidel on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:38 AM                   Quote | Reply

The FDA has simplified the application for compassionate use of investigational drugs, the new draft form is quite simple.

The rNDV oncolytic virus has not passed any clinical trials, so the permission from the FDA for compassionate use is required.

I need the american licensed oncologist to arrange this therapy for me with prof. Subbiah, that has researched the rNDV virus.

If someone knows an oncologist, that is willing to do it for several hundred dollars, please tell me.

There is not much he should do, just call to prof. Subbiah and speak with him.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 01:15 PM                   Quote | Reply

One problem with 3bp is that there is no patentable money to be made from it. Another people saying things that they are actually clueless about, either deliberately or unknowingly. We treat patients and are not "claiming" to treat patients. Furthermore, there is a MD on staff.

A pancreatic patient dropping CA 19-9 numbers 20% per week is nothing to get encouraged about? Wow.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Fri Mar 27, 2015 02:44 PM                   Quote | Reply

So is the board certified oncologist working there?

Claims made on the internet are cheap. We want verifiable and reproducible published data.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 27, 2015 03:56 PM                   Quote | Reply

We really should all get to know one another. It would make things much less complex.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 03:59 PM                   Quote | Reply

I have a medical license to protect and so cannot lie. You wanted a MD and we have one. No, he is not a board certified oncologist and thankfully he is not. Do you really think a board certified oncologist will work with 3bp?

You want verifiable and reproducible published data. Did you know that 89% of chemotherapy drug trials are not verifiable? http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v483/n7391

/full/483531a.html

I take it you do not have cancer and work for a medical concern if you want data that will happen in 3 to 5 years from now. Who is the "we" you refer to?

Attacks made on the internet are cheap. Ignaz Semmelweis was scorned for having the audacity to say that physicians were killing women by going from autopsies to obstetrics to deliver babies. Eventually it came to be realized that he was right and eventually that generation of those who opposed him died out. So it will be with "3bp".

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Fri Mar 27, 2015 05:20 PM                   Quote | Reply

My wife has stage 4 lung cancer which is rapidly advancing, and resistant to tyrosine kinase inhibition. We are looking for high quality data.

I note that you're not a physician. But if your naturopathic clinic has good data, you should share it. The fact that you don't likely means you don't have the data.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 27, 2015 06:07 PM                   Quote | Reply

Hi Zhaosr,

I am very sorry to hear about your wife. Regarding the data, I guess is difficult to have Andrew sharing that so fast - they just started. Plus, when clinics are focussed on curing people there is little time to collect data and publish ...

Depending on your financials, besides the 3BP option at Andrew or at home, what comes into my mind that you can do is the following:

- go to Germany to prof. Thomas Volg - he is the one who first time treated the boy with 3BP - he can use some special technique to deliver chemotheraphy only to the lung tumors. That will cost about 16000euro for several treatments. In order to identify which chemo will work best you can do an RGCC test that would cost about 2000euro.

- go to Germany to prof. Thomas Nesselhut and get a combination of Dentritic Cells + Anti PD1 vaccines. That will cost about 10000euro and has high chances of effectivnes but it comes with a few % risk to trigger an aauto immune deseas.

- go to Columbia for the 3BP+Salinomycin combi

These are highly serious treatments.

Otherwise I also know options in Germany where you may be able to get 3BP and/or Salinomycin IV treatments - but the experience is limitted.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Danielus on Fri Mar 27, 2015 06:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

hi Howard, great to hear that you are well!!!

What Salinomycin are you taking, the 12% or 24% version?

Are you still taking 3BP? Oral or nebulized?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Fri Mar 27, 2015 06:27 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks, but she just had a chest drain inserted to relieve a malignant pleural effusion so won't be able to fly anywhere for a while. The oncologist says if she fails platinum doublet therapy started last week, there is nothing funded left. And there are no local trials recruiting. So, if 3bp has to be imported by myself, so be it. But I need data.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by adickens7 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 09:30 PM                   Quote | Reply

Sorry to hear of your wife.

If you want high quality data, one study had survival rates for chemotherapy for stage 4 lung in 20,741 patients as 2% for only 410 patients made it 5 years. If you want to bet on a 2% chance that is your privilege. I would rather go with a non-patented approach. Yes, there is not the data there presently but considering the high quality data who would do chemotherapy? Oh, do you know of any double blind placebo contolled chemotherapy studies? I don't. We have only just started using 3bp and are very thankful for it so no, we don't have 5 years of data.

As for whether I am a physician or not, if you mean that I am not a MD physician that is correct. However, the United States Federal government considers me a physician, at least my DEA license says so. Also, the state in which I practice, Arizona, considers me a physician.

When we screen patients and their caregivers, we look for hypercritical, negativity and excessive fault finding. These people do not have good outcomes no matter what the treatment is. There is a strong psychosocial emotional component to getting well. People have to have a positive outlook to over come their disease. Norman Cousins is well known for overcoming his illness, ankylosing spondylitis? by using Vit C and humor. Having a humorous approach to life doeth good as a medicine. Very important to wellness.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 27, 2015 09:46 PM                   Quote | Reply

Best Wishes. I really hope you can find help on this thread. I defer to some of the heavy hitters here to give you advice.

There are 2 mouse studies using 3-BP studies using aerosol delivery. I know this mat be discounted, though these studies note that dosing in this way avoids toxicity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25644152

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22401980

The Columbia clinic had one lung cancer patient, though we have yet located a published article. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cancer-treatment-ins

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by zhaosr on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:09 PM                   Quote | Reply

Thanks. I've read all the published papers, and the press release. Odd way though to publish. Most reputable institutions use journals to disseminate data.

As for Dayspring, color me unimpressed when they use boiler plate text on how many untreatable diseases they can treat, the lack of any named personnel on their website, and lack of publications to substantiate their claims.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Jcancom on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:29 PM                   Quote | Reply

Just to get you up to speed. With 3-BP treatment you will have to accpet that it is pretty much off-road. There is almost no published clinical data.

This clinic in Atlanta also offers 3-BP.

http://beta.ensemba.com/view?resource_id=2885591&topic_i

Check out the Cancer Metabolism meeting website

http://cancermetabolism-summit.com/who/speakers/

There is another 3-BP thread on inspire that our members follow, (need to sign up)

http://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian-cancer-national-allian

Two of the more impressive non-3-BP treatments that I have mentioned on this thread are nanocells and X-Ray PDT. These might not be (easily) available, though they appear powerful.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.4161/cc.6.17.4648#.VRY

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25795822

http://cen.acs.org/articles/93/web/2015/03/Nanoparticle-Take

All the best.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by tddelon24 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:02 AM                   Quote | Reply

Adickens- Thank you kindly for the 3bp information. If you were a board certified oncologist you would be required to administer toxic chemotherapy and hopefully kill the cancer before killing the patient. It is due to you  and your practice that those that dare to search for answers have a chance at beating it while improving their overall health and maintaining a somewhat enjoyable life.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:41 AM                   Quote | Reply

What do you have in mind?

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:48 AM                   Quote | Reply

Do not criticize him. He just wants to be sure the treatment is worth all the money you charge.

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RE: Anyone used 3bp (3-bromopyruvate)?
by Genelle on Sat Mar 28, 2015 01:10 AM                   Quote | Reply

How would we do that?